1. Hi Bros, would like to gather some opinions on front under struct bar.
2. Would one piece 4 points front under struct bar be better than 2 pieces of 2 points front under struct bar in term of flex and rigidity? Which one would fare better in term of handling and cornering if all else being equal?
Thank you.
Regards,
Which one is a better struct bar?
Technically speaking these items aren't called "struct" bars, the closest to these are called strut bars and only refer to the ones on top linking your suspension strut tops (front or rear). Those bars that are found underbody are usually called brace bars if they are of those 8-point designs that act as an additional brace to the chassis, or lower-arm bars since they act as reinforcing links to the lower-arm assemblies.
You can loosely refer to all these types of bars as "structural" bars but technically speaking they are not part of the car's structure and as such are not structural bars (as opposed to those standard bars found within your car doors, car body etc); they however can be called reinforcement brace bars. As such "struct" bars (top OR bottom) is the wrong term or word to use. The common meaning of the word is also usually wrongly applied as a replacement for "strut" bar.
Sorry for the rambling post, just wanted to take the opportunity to clear up a term commonly misused in the dictionary of modding. Next on my list would be head "casket" as opposed to gasket.....
You can loosely refer to all these types of bars as "structural" bars but technically speaking they are not part of the car's structure and as such are not structural bars (as opposed to those standard bars found within your car doors, car body etc); they however can be called reinforcement brace bars. As such "struct" bars (top OR bottom) is the wrong term or word to use. The common meaning of the word is also usually wrongly applied as a replacement for "strut" bar.
Sorry for the rambling post, just wanted to take the opportunity to clear up a term commonly misused in the dictionary of modding. Next on my list would be head "casket" as opposed to gasket.....
To answer your question, if rigidity is what you're after, the one-piece 4-point brace would provide less flex, assuming all material and welding qualities are the same as the dual (separate) 2-point fixture.
I can't answer how they would perform differently though, since my huge-ass header does not allow the fitment of a front lower-arm bar!!
I can't answer how they would perform differently though, since my huge-ass header does not allow the fitment of a front lower-arm bar!!
Thank you very much for the explanation.DIRT22 wrote:Technically speaking these items aren't called "struct" bars, the closest to these are called strut bars and only refer to the ones on top linking your suspension strut tops (front or rear). Those bars that are found underbody are usually called brace bars if they are of those 8-point designs that act as an additional brace to the chassis, or lower-arm bars since they act as reinforcing links to the lower-arm assemblies.
You can loosely refer to all these types of bars as "structural" bars but technically speaking they are not part of the car's structure and as such are not structural bars (as opposed to those standard bars found within your car doors, car body etc); they however can be called reinforcement brace bars. As such "struct" bars (top OR bottom) is the wrong term or word to use. The common meaning of the word is also usually wrongly applied as a replacement for "strut" bar.
Sorry for the rambling post, just wanted to take the opportunity to clear up a term commonly misused in the dictionary of modding. Next on my list would be head "casket" as opposed to gasket.....
Regards,
-
MCDS
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bro Kelpie
what is your objective of getting the under braces?
better handling?
if you seriously want a super stiff and 'reinforced' chasis, go to a workshop and strip out everything... and do spotwelding on your chasis.
go one more step to do injection moulding into your chasis beams as well...
the results will amaze even you...
this is not a joke. another bro has just done his... the results are 'spectacular'
regards
what is your objective of getting the under braces?
better handling?
if you seriously want a super stiff and 'reinforced' chasis, go to a workshop and strip out everything... and do spotwelding on your chasis.
go one more step to do injection moulding into your chasis beams as well...
the results will amaze even you...
this is not a joke. another bro has just done his... the results are 'spectacular'
regards
Freedom isn't Free, it costs people like you and me... Freedom costs a buck 'o five....
Just curious to know wats the cost of the damages?thksMCDS wrote:bro Kelpie
what is your objective of getting the under braces?
better handling?
if you seriously want a super stiff and 'reinforced' chasis, go to a workshop and strip out everything... and do spotwelding on your chasis.
go one more step to do injection moulding into your chasis beams as well...
the results will amaze even you...
this is not a joke. another bro has just done his... the results are 'spectacular'
regards
Ahhh spot-welding.....sure beats having a brace of bars all over the shop, you can sure tell the difference between a car on track without spot welds, and one with. The whole thing just feels so much....."tighter".....
But heaven forbid you get into any major crash or accident involving support beams (for example, hard crash into a stationary vehicle at the traffic lights). If your spot-welded car gets into any of these, you run a much higher possibility of having to literally scrap your car instead of being able to get it repaired. Spot welds also tend to rust easier than a bog standard standard car body (assuming standard bodies without those fancy aftermarket deals like Tuff Kote etc).
But heaven forbid you get into any major crash or accident involving support beams (for example, hard crash into a stationary vehicle at the traffic lights). If your spot-welded car gets into any of these, you run a much higher possibility of having to literally scrap your car instead of being able to get it repaired. Spot welds also tend to rust easier than a bog standard standard car body (assuming standard bodies without those fancy aftermarket deals like Tuff Kote etc).
Not cheap! 
Just imagine the labour involved in the following:
Strip out entire car interior including dashboard, moldings and carpets (wiring and windshields included).
Drop all engine bay components including wiring harnesses and whatnot lines.
Strip out and clean out standard soundproofing (tar-like material) on car body.
Perform additional welding on spot points of car chassis (bear in mind at this point the car is akin to a totally empty shell just like how it was on the factory assembly line before all the components were installed).
Re-assemble everything, test to make sure everything fits and works properly (!!!).
If you were someone who had to do all the above, how much would you charge?
If someone tells you there is a cheaper way of doing spot-welding and without having to go through ANY or ALL of the above, I would point out a liar to you. Or someone who has much lower standards and is willing to accept half-F##K slip-shod work, which you're probably better off not having had done in the first place!
Just imagine the labour involved in the following:
Strip out entire car interior including dashboard, moldings and carpets (wiring and windshields included).
Drop all engine bay components including wiring harnesses and whatnot lines.
Strip out and clean out standard soundproofing (tar-like material) on car body.
Perform additional welding on spot points of car chassis (bear in mind at this point the car is akin to a totally empty shell just like how it was on the factory assembly line before all the components were installed).
Re-assemble everything, test to make sure everything fits and works properly (!!!).
If you were someone who had to do all the above, how much would you charge?
If someone tells you there is a cheaper way of doing spot-welding and without having to go through ANY or ALL of the above, I would point out a liar to you. Or someone who has much lower standards and is willing to accept half-F##K slip-shod work, which you're probably better off not having had done in the first place!
If you have a project car to work with, by all means!! Cos time is not a constraint, and you can provide the labour so you save on all these things. All you'll need are the specific tools to get the job done.
Basically you will need to down everything, revert the car back to its bare bones chassis, no parts no windshields no doors etc etc etc. So with things like wiring harnesses et al, you will need to know how to put things back properly once the welding job is done.
To remove the tar normally we use paint scrapers to scrap it off. This is a bloody tedious job, but you can imagine the amount of weight you save by removing all this gunk!! Weight saved = performance gained, so why not yeah? The tar residue can be cleaned off with normal petrol or derivatives, just don't smoke while doing so and make sure the workspace is well ventilated! At the same time you might want to attack the bitumen layer some car manufacturers apply to their wheel wells, fuel tanks, under the floor pans etc. More weight to be saved there!! 
Once you have the bare bones shell, you can begin to attack the standard weld sections. A stock car comes from the factory with the basic welds done by the computer jigs; this is more than enough for holding the car together for most daily drives, but if we push the car much harder than normal drivers do, the entire car body will flex in accordance with the laws of physics and in whichever way the forces are directed at it. Spot welding is, put simply, a mere reinforcement of the factory welds: this creates a super stiff "cage" out of your cars bare bones chassis, and allows the car to behave more like a solid entity when you throw it around the corners.
Like previously mentioned, however, due to the welding nature being "added" on to the factory weld points, a car that has been spot welded will tend to rust easier than one without spot welding. You can paint over the spots, put back the soundproofing tar, do whatnot to it, but it WILL still rust faster than standard. Don't be too easily put off by this however, since this process will still take many many years before it materialises, unless you intend to park your spot welded car (your pride and joy) in an exposed open air car park and leave it to the mercy of the elements on a daily basis.
Also previously mentioned, a properly spot-welded car is rigid as hell. Get into a serious enough accident (not serious enough to total the car, if car were normal) and you'll probably find that a frontal crash would have dislodged your rear windshield cos the car frame behind also gone out of shape hahaha.
Okay enough of spot welding lah, that's not the original topic so lets steer the focus back to the threadstarter's topic okay?
Basically you will need to down everything, revert the car back to its bare bones chassis, no parts no windshields no doors etc etc etc. So with things like wiring harnesses et al, you will need to know how to put things back properly once the welding job is done.
To remove the tar normally we use paint scrapers to scrap it off. This is a bloody tedious job, but you can imagine the amount of weight you save by removing all this gunk!! Weight saved = performance gained, so why not yeah?
The tar residue can be cleaned off with normal petrol or derivatives, just don't smoke while doing so and make sure the workspace is well ventilated! At the same time you might want to attack the bitumen layer some car manufacturers apply to their wheel wells, fuel tanks, under the floor pans etc. More weight to be saved there!! Once you have the bare bones shell, you can begin to attack the standard weld sections. A stock car comes from the factory with the basic welds done by the computer jigs; this is more than enough for holding the car together for most daily drives, but if we push the car much harder than normal drivers do, the entire car body will flex in accordance with the laws of physics and in whichever way the forces are directed at it. Spot welding is, put simply, a mere reinforcement of the factory welds: this creates a super stiff "cage" out of your cars bare bones chassis, and allows the car to behave more like a solid entity when you throw it around the corners.
Like previously mentioned, however, due to the welding nature being "added" on to the factory weld points, a car that has been spot welded will tend to rust easier than one without spot welding. You can paint over the spots, put back the soundproofing tar, do whatnot to it, but it WILL still rust faster than standard. Don't be too easily put off by this however, since this process will still take many many years before it materialises, unless you intend to park your spot welded car (your pride and joy) in an exposed open air car park and leave it to the mercy of the elements on a daily basis.
Also previously mentioned, a properly spot-welded car is rigid as hell. Get into a serious enough accident (not serious enough to total the car, if car were normal) and you'll probably find that a frontal crash would have dislodged your rear windshield cos the car frame behind also gone out of shape hahaha.
Okay enough of spot welding lah, that's not the original topic so lets steer the focus back to the threadstarter's topic okay?
Good luck on your spot-welding quest!!
Once that is done, you can also put in all the types of bars around, strut bars, body bars, B and C pillar bars, lower-arm bars or braces, full roll-cage (aluminium of course, save all that weight don't go waste it with a steel cage!!).......your car will handle like a dream, and with the proper suspension and camber settings your car will skoot around the corners like it was born and bred for the track!!
Once that is done, you can also put in all the types of bars around, strut bars, body bars, B and C pillar bars, lower-arm bars or braces, full roll-cage (aluminium of course, save all that weight don't go waste it with a steel cage!!).......your car will handle like a dream, and with the proper suspension and camber settings your car will skoot around the corners like it was born and bred for the track!!