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Honda Stream 2007 X-1.8L versus Toyota Wish X-1.8L (by mt88)

Honda Stream 2007 X-1.8L versus Toyota Wish X-1.8L (by mt88)

Postby mt88 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:16 pm

Honda Stream 2007 X-1.8L versus Toyota Wish X-1.8L (comparison, mt88 version)

Disclaimer: This comparison is neither as a suggestion to buy nor a recommendation to buy. Some of the data found here are linked directly from Honda Japan and Toyota Japan website.

Honda Stream Japan website: http://www.honda.co.jp/STREAM/
Toyota Wish Japan website: http://toyota.jp/wish/index.html

For a little history on Honda Stream visit http://motoring.asia1.com.sg/cgi-bin/motorbb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000477
For a little history of Toyota Wish visit http://motoring.asia1.com.sg/cgi-bin/motorbb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000373

During my last trip, I was presented with a key to a spanking new Honda Stream for a short spin, an opportunity that I simply found hard to resist. It cannot help but to evoke some interest in me.

Coincidently a friend here is also looking to buy a compact multi purpose vehicle (mpv) but very much torn between the Wish and the new Stream. So I thought since I am scrutinizing the data for him, might as well write a little comparison between the two see if I can help to identify some positive and negative points.

Intro

Following its big brother JDM Odyssey, the all new second generation 2007 Stream now comes with a sleeker body, a lower roof line and a styling cue of the bigger brother. It makes this new Stream sportier and more sedan-alike which appeals to the younger audiences its aiming for.

Total height is now stand at 1545mm in oppose of 1590mm of the older one or about the same as the current Odyssey at 1550mm. Overall length now stands at 4570mm or 2 cm longer than the old one while the width remains the same at 1695mm.

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The reduced height brings positive and negative points. Positive points are lower wind resistance and lower centre of gravity that enhanced the basic handling of the car. The disadvantage is similar to the big brother, which is less room for tall and bulky item.

Toyota Wish on the other hand has been around for 3 years but it is no doubt still a very popular choice among car buyers here. It was born on January 2003 to answer the wishes of those who want compact multi purpose car with extra space to seat 7 but the agility and the economy of compact sedan.

Although the concept of Japanese compact mpv was first made popular by Honda with introduction of Stream in on Oct 2000, a good two and half years earlier than Wish, it was not very popular mainly due to the premium price local Authorized Dealer (AD) commanded into this segment.

It was however different when the Wish came. It was at a time where price of cars had steadily dropping due to lower exchange rate and lower COE. With a very competitive pricing plus the ever popular Toyota brand-image it instantly became the favorite for the segment that tragically Stream wanted to service in the first place.

The popularity of Wish is obviously a hard fact to swallow for Honda. To answer the popularity of Wish, Honda that prides itself as a premium automobile maker decided to introduce an improved version of Stream. The big question now is, Can Honda claim back the market it’s lost? Does it have what it takes to tackle the popular Wish? Let’s see in slight details below.

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More of Stream photos:

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More of Wish photos:

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Postby mt88 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:17 pm

Dimension

The actual exterior dimension is almost identical except Stream’s height is 4.5cm shorter giving the illusion that Wish is a slightly bigger car.

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The interior roominess is also no different. The two has almost identical interior space. Going in and out either on the front and the second row is not a problem for both. There is enough headroom for front and mid passengers.

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Going to the third row, a tall person needs a little more bending on the Stream as the roof line is marginally lower than Wish. On the other hand the process of folding the second row seat to go the third row is much easier on the Stream as the lever (called easy tip and fold) is right on the seat’s shoulder whereas one needs to bend down to reach the lever below on Wish.

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Despite the compactness, seating in the third row seat is surprisingly alright for small-size-adult on the Stream. This is because the foot can be easily slot under the second row chair due to the flat floor. The slightly boxier and flat posture of Stream also helps the headroom on the third row.

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Despite marginally taller, the Wish upper body is slightly more convex and the roof bent downward canceling off the benefit of more headroom. Couple this with a bulging sides of the roofline, the result is a tight 3rd row’s headroom. (plus if you see the comparison picture carefully, of the horizontal red line, you will notice that the 3rd row seat on Wish positioned higher than Stream explain the shorter headroom). A taller adult may have to move slightly inward to avoid the head brushing against the roof. What makes matter worst is the slanting floor (on the back) so one needs to bend the foot and squeeze it into a small gap of the 2nd row seat. The bulging headrest is also protruding the back and need to be pulled up with a slight expense of rear-view. Small children should find it ok.

Back passengers are seated very close to the tailgate (see diagram). This may raise some safety concern. But before you start ranting about this, you maybe glad to know that you are also have a choice of safe mpv albeit a little more damage on your bank account by clicking the url at http://www.shc-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=59008 and the crash test at http://www.nasva.go.jp/mamoru/english/2005/type/20_elysion.html

Buyers must aware that we are discussing a compact mpv here so it is unavoidable. However not always an mpv has to be driven full house and some-more the driver can always drive more defensively keeping a safe distance in between. Mid row passengers get same protection (if not better) as the rear passengers of a compact 4-door sedan.

With all seats up there is only little small room left about 30 cm wide on the baggage area, enough for few small shopping bags or a compact and light Combi stroller/pram. A big size pram may not able to fit in. There is also a little storage room to put some tools and flat-stuffs hidden under the flap for both.

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Interior

Behind the wheel is where the contrast between the two brands becomes apparent. The clusters of dials on the Stream are well spaced and ergonomic. The backlight comes with a bluish hue giving a youngish and sportier and slight up-market feeling. In contrast Wish has a compacted and cluttered dials. The orangey backlight on the dials and yellowish green on the ac panels reminds me of an old car. Perhaps that is just a matter of taste. No optitron dials are available for both.

Note: Surprisingly the same old greenish tone backlight dial is still used in the all new 8-seater 100K Estima, just what is this cheapo Toyota thinking?

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To save few dollars further, both X-models do not get IR/thermal-cut windshield glass, only slightly tinted UV-cut glass so an aftermarket film may be needed for extra comfort. The 1.8L RSZ and all the 2L models Stream get UV+IR cut windshield as standard, while only the top of the line 2L Wish get the UV+IR cut windshield. More discussion on glass code and what it means read it at: http://motoring.asia1.com.sg/cgi-bin/motorbb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=003544

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Luckily the front side’s windows get UV+IR cut glass plus a tinted privacy glass on the back that helps a lot to reduce the intensity of the sunlight. This in return making the third party additional rear AC is really unnecessary for such size. During my test in one hot sunny day proves that the upward a/c vents plus a super strong blower on both cars able to blow cooler air right into the last row.

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Last edited by mt88 on Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mt88 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:28 pm

Handling

The characteristic of Honda being a driver’s car appears well in new Stream. Honda drivers will find it right at home. Driving position is lower and the seat grip the body well giving a false impression of being behind a sports-car. The seat is also slightly contoured to give enough back support.

In wish, the driver is seated slightly upright something like seating in the single-seat-sofa with additional lumbar support. The single armrest on driver’s seat is also handy to give a more relaxing mood while driving. Overall the seat is adequately good, only with slightly less back support. This isn’t not going to make much different on short journey.

On the road the Stream feels secure and smooth. The low centre of gravity that empowered in most Honda cars feels good in giving added stability. Road bumps are sufficiently absorbed. However one thing that needs to get used to is the light Electronic Power Steering in the new Stream. The steer feels very light at all speed. It is no different in Wish. I personally am not a big fan of electrical power steering due to the less road response, however I believe this will be a standard fare for future cars.

The Wish that I tested has already put some 5000km while the Stream was rather new at less than 100km. So obviously I was meaner with Wish pushing it to the limit at times :) When accelerated the engine felt a bit raunchy while it was relatively more subdued on Stream. Overall road noise was more apparent on Wish. I wasn’t sure the cause whether thin sound insulation or simply slightly older where the rubber-seals weren’t air-tight anymore. One thing for sure Stream looks 50kg heavier on specs although same size. Maybe due to more insulation? Benefit of newer model?

I believe once it gets older the aggressive groves on Stream OE Yokohama tire will become increasingly audible too.
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During hard cornering the Wish becomes a little wobbly. Maybe due to its soft suspension that is pretty much the trade mark of Toyotas cars.

During sedated driving both cars behaves quite nicely. The 4 gear AT on Wish is able to take advantage of the torque band (sweet spot) of the engine during low to medium speed. However when pushed hard the powers falters rather quickly leaving the booming sound but less oomph…giving the impression of “power no enoughâ€
Last edited by mt88 on Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby mt88 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:33 pm

Equipments

For option on Stream click this url http://www.honda.co.jp/STREAM/option/
For Wish equipment click this http://toyota.jp/wish/spec/equipment/index.html

Basic equipment on Wish X

195/65R15 tire & 6JJ steel wheel (resin full cap)
EBD (control of electronic damping force distribution) you attach, ABS& brake assist
Stabilizer (front & rear)
Rear disk brake only for 2L
UV cut windshield/ Front Glasss (IR/Thermal-cut is standard for G and Z model)
UV cut privacy glass (rear quarter + back door)
Plated hood molding & back door garnish
The projector halogen headlight (manual leveling function you attach)
LED type tail & stop lamp & high mount stop lamp
Combination meter (optitron only for G and Z)
Gate type shifter 4th gear sequential shift matics
3 spokes steering wheel
Back door gearing electric type door lock
Smart door-lock remote control (driver's seat suicide seat)
Wireless door-lock remote control (answer back function you attach)
Foot rest (driver's seat)
SRS air bag (drivers only) Passenger side optional
Drivers seat armrest + 2nd row armrest
Front ELR attaching 3 point type seat belt
Second ELR attaching 3 point type seat belt
Third ELR attaching 3 point type seat belt
ISOFIX corresponding child seat fixed private bar
Automatic air conditioner + filter

Factory Options:
Electromotive tilt & the sliding moon roof (optional for 52,500Yen)
Foglight
Steeringwheel switch + factory AV+glass antenna
Passenger’s side airbag JPY78750

What cosmetic available in Wish X is pretty much available on new Stream X. What Stream doesn’t get is:
1. The front drivers armrest
2. Rear sway bar
3. Electric tailgate-lock
4. Real time FC figure and Avg km/h indicator

What Wish doesn’t get is
1. ECO low load fc indicator.
2. Better engine
3. 5 Speed Transmission
4. Wider tire 215 (better grip)
5. Speed sensitive auto door-lock.

For those who want armrest on Stream X model, you can order a premium package for an extra JPY31500 (approx additional S$400 to OMV) that consist factory installed:
1. Front seat mid-armrest
2. Under the seat tray
3. Stainless steel exhaust tip
4. One touch power window for all windows
I think this is one of the so called “value buyâ€
Last edited by mt88 on Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:33 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Postby mt88 » Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:35 pm

Price

Not only is the size and equipment similar but also the price. It is no doubt that both cars are made to compete each other, virtually neck to neck :)

Here is the comparison of official price list in Japan (Less 5% Japanese GST)

Honda Stream 1.8 X 5AT = JPY 1,806,000 (1,720,000)
Honda Stream 1.8 X Premium Package 5AT = JPY 1,837,500 (1,750,000)
Honda Stream 1.8 RSZ 5AT= JPY 2,068,500 (1,970,000)

Toyota Wish 1.8 XE 4AT = JPY 1,722,000 (1,635,900)
Toyota Wish 1.8 X 4AT= JPY 1,806,000 (1,720,000)
Toyota Wish 1.8X Limited 4AT = JPY 1,827,000 (1,735,650)
Toyota Wish 1.8 Aero Sport 4AT = JPY 1,995,000 (1,895,250)

Here is the estimate Cost Prices on the port (before local expenses) based on a known OMV published on one-motoring website and assuming COE at $11000. Be warned that OMV are different slightly between one PI and another due to their discounts and costing.

Honda Stream 1.8 X 5AT (1799cc) = OMV is around S$18600 to $20733 and the cost price around $56000 to $61000. Premium package 1.8X adds around $1000 and 1.8 RSZ adds around 7500 to 8000. Honda Stream 2L (1988cc) = OMV $22154 cost $66285

Toyota Wish 1.8 XE 4AT (1794cc) = OMV is around S$18000 to $19752, means the cost is around $55000 to $59000. For X version adds around $1000 and another $1000 for X limited. For 1.8L Aero Sport adds another $5000-6000 from X limited.

Most of PIs quotes me 70K for either Stream X or Wish X. Additional 1K for Wish X-limited and 67K for XE (X Economy). One PI at turf-city advertises Stream X for 66,800 cash price before finance rebate. I have yet to verify if this is with no string attached. For anyone with more info on this please post your comment here.
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For such as price, it is no brainer that Stream X offers a better value than the bare or economy version of Wish XE as the material used in Wish is of lower grade.

Those who think PI makes a lot as the original omv cost is only around 57K-58K has to realize that cost has not include “manyâ€
Last edited by mt88 on Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby BlackFerio » Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:18 pm

Good review !! How about posting it at sg stream forum ?
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Postby Nitrocity » Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:28 pm

I went down there today, its a JDXXX PI dealer.. Verified that they are selling $66,800 except Pearl white add $2k. and certain acc like rim, leather, arm rest etc not incl..And oso subjected to pay 2 mths up front and 2 years insr at $1890 regardless ur NCB. And 6 bid Coe guarantee...hmm..confirm JAN to take car only...


[quote="mt88"]Price

Not only is the size and equipment similar but also the price. It is no doubt that both cars are made to compete each other, virtually neck to neck :)

Here is the comparison of official price list in Japan (Less 5% Japanese GST)

Honda Stream 1.8 X 5AT = JPY 1,806,000 (1,720,000)
Honda Stream 1.8 X Premium Package 5AT = JPY 1,837,500 (1,750,000)
Honda Stream 1.8 RSZ 5AT= JPY 2,068,500 (1,970,000)

Toyota Wish 1.8 XE 4AT = JPY 1,722,000 (1,635,900)
Toyota Wish 1.8 X 4AT= JPY 1,806,000 (1,720,000)
Toyota Wish 1.8X Limited 4AT = JPY 1,827,000 (1,735,650)
Toyota Wish 1.8 Aero Sport 4AT = JPY 1,995,000 (1,895,250)

Here is the estimate Cost Prices on the port (before local expenses) based on a known OMV published on one-motoring website and assuming COE at $11000. Be warned that OMV are different slightly between one PI and another due to their discounts and costing.

Honda Stream 1.8 X 5AT (1799cc) = OMV is around S$18600 to $20733 and the cost price around $56000 to $61000. Premium package 1.8X adds around $1000 and 1.8 RSZ adds around 7500 to 8000. Honda Stream 2L (1988cc) = OMV $22154 cost $66285

Toyota Wish 1.8 XE 4AT (1794cc) = OMV is around S$18000 to $19752, means the cost is around $55000 to $59000. For X version adds around $1000 and another $1000 for X limited. For 1.8L Aero Sport adds another $5000-6000 from X limited.

Most of PIs quotes me 70K for either Stream X or Wish X. Additional 1K for Wish X-limited and 67K for XE (X Economy). One PI at turf-city advertises Stream X for 66,800 cash price before finance rebate. I have yet to verify if this is with no string attached. For anyone with more info on this please post your comment here.
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For such as price, it is no brainer that Stream X offers a better value than the bare or economy version of Wish XE as the material used in Wish is of lower grade.

Those who think PI makes a lot as the original omv cost is only around 57K-58K has to realize that cost has not include “manyâ€
Do the pick up...
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Postby andy » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:12 am

Bro MT88

Nice review! I had tested both cars, my conclusion is to go for Stream! it has great handling and a slightly power engine !

:lol:
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Postby ManualOnly » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:39 am

What Wish doesn’t get is
1. ECO and average km/l fc indicator.
2. Better engine



bro, u might need to update on some of the followings for Wish:

1) Comes with AVG km/l and real-time km/l meter in all versions.
2) The very new (R18) engine vs the old trusty 1ZZ-FE of 1998 ? Maybe we can wait after further FR from owners.
All wish versions cums with factory fitted LEDs on both rear and 3rd brake lights. It is not an extra option.
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Wish has slightly taller middle room lei..how many times do you carry plants in your car and what a 5cm is going to make a difference ah

I am curious why downplay the significance of better head clearance after you stated "headroom while entry is better in Wish" ?
You will be surprised how an extra 5cm or more of roofline height helps in easier pax exit/entry, especially for older folks with weak knees. I am pretty sure Ody folks would agree :wink: After all, isn't MPV is meant to be pax friendly?

Notice the difference in your pic on the pax door angle clearance? Mind your head :!:
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Postby mt88 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:25 am

ManualOnly wrote:
What Wish doesn’t get is
1. ECO and average km/l fc indicator.
2. Better engine



bro, u might need to update on some of the followings for Wish:

1) Comes with AVG km/l and real-time km/l meter in all versions.
2) The very new (R18) engine vs the old trusty 1ZZ-FE of 1998 ? Maybe we can wait after further FR from owners.
All wish versions cums with factory fitted LEDs on both rear and 3rd brake lights. It is not an extra option.

Wish has slightly taller middle room lei..how many times do you carry plants in your car and what a 5cm is going to make a difference ah

I am curious why downplay the significance of better head clearance after you stated "headroom while entry is better in Wish" ?
You will be surprised how an extra 5cm or more of roofline height helps in easier pax exit/entry, especially for older folks with weak knees. I am pretty sure Ody folks would agree :wink: After all, isn't MPV is meant to be pax friendly?

Notice the difference in your pic on the pax door angle clearance? Mind your head :!:


Thanks all for the comments :)

Wish doesnt come with ECO low load indicator, (a change has been added) thanks.

Thanks for the notification on rear LED, what I actually mean is the clear cover led indicator as option. Original Wish X doesn't get the clear plastic.

Both cars have average km/l but not with an on-the-fly-fc bar (employ in hybrid) or Ody or Elysion. But Stream get extra ECO low load indicator

Dont take the conclusion so seriously, it meant to be a joke. Notice the last sentence? :)

Actually the dif on better headroom is very marginal. Second row pax on either cars wont have any diff going in and out as mentioned in the article. The third row is tricky. Bending probably difficult for elderly but I wont recommend to put elderly there :) Second row or first is more appropriate for elderly. No problem going in and out for 1st and 2nd row.

Despite the lower body sitting in third row is better on Stream. Good origami enginering :). I have 4 adult people have already tried, tested the third row on both and all confirm it. Children wont have any problem on both.

Notice the slanting foot room angle on Wish is not mentioned in official graph (not consistence) and actual height is also not as good as what people think, see the extra lines on my graph carefully :) The dummy on Wish is a child size dummy for third row while Stream use adult size.
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Better engine for Wish? 2ZR-FE Not yet for this current model. Maybe for all new Wish replacement? I already mentioned it in the history of wish url provided on the first few paragraph. http://motoring.asia1.com.sg/cgi-bin/motorbb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000373
However Toyota in its official report saying that all 1zzfe engine will be replaced by 2010. Maybe earlier, as Auris already get it, but not mention in the company report.
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Postby mt88 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:27 am

Nitrocity wrote:I went down there today, its a JDXXX PI dealer.. Verified that they are selling $66,800 except Pearl white add $2k. and certain acc like rim, leather, arm rest etc not incl..And oso subjected to pay 2 mths up front and 2 years insr at $1890 regardless ur NCB. And 6 bid Coe guarantee...hmm..confirm JAN to take car only...



Thanks for your valuable input. Readers please take note.
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Postby mt88 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:38 am

BlackFerio wrote:Good review !! How about posting it at sg stream forum ?


You are welcome to link it, I dun have password for SgStream forum. :)

Anyone can just link it if wanted too. Save me from the troube of signing up :)
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Postby civic cat » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:21 am

just to thank you for the detailed comparison - you've help sort out a lot of things for me! lots of thanks again :D
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Postby mt88 » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:21 pm

Black Ferio, Andy, Civic Cat, Manual Only and Others,

Thank you for dropping me your kind notes.


For all other Bros and Sis here,

Do leave me a note if you find this article useful or even NOT useful. So "maybe" next time I can incorporate the suggestions into the writings. Thanks :)
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Postby zakuii » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:50 pm

good stuff mt88. thanks for the review.

on my way home today, saw the new black stream on the road. looks small, maybe because of the lower height. looks good.
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