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Spunkett
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Post by Spunkett » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:23 am

Hey hey, terch has been hotting it up quietly on his own! Maybe we should try getting the guys in the other forum into karting as well!
Be kind enough to let me try your kart sometime? Looking at a CRG now. Need comparisons. But contemplating how much more meat i got to put on to prevent being beaten up by the kart.
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ShaunSG
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Post by ShaunSG » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:44 am

Spunkett wrote:Looking at a CRG now. Need comparisons. But contemplating how much more meat i got to put on to prevent being beaten up by the kart.
No matter which way you go within the top few brands (all 10 or so of them), it'll still come down mainly to you as a driver. No worries. Your
crew is also very important if you're not maintaining and setting it up yourself. In this sense, the kart itself, within the same tier, does not really
matter. The 2 most impressive laptimes have been set in karts that would not be anywhere near the first named starting from top down (both chassis and engine wise)... all driver

Don't worry about meat.. size your seat correctly, get a good deep seat, good rib protector gear and things will be fine. All sorts of skinny kids kart... skinny people in their 20s - 50s too lol
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EKen4
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Post by EKen4 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:01 pm

Shall I make this thread a sticky, so that it can become a more accessible thread for regular go-karting meetups?

Jyoji, u can edit the subject heading right?

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Post by J-AP2 » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:55 pm

ShaunSG wrote:
Spunkett wrote:Looking at a CRG now. Need comparisons. But contemplating how much more meat i got to put on to prevent being beaten up by the kart.
No matter which way you go within the top few brands (all 10 or so of them), it'll still come down mainly to you as a driver. No worries. Your
crew is also very important if you're not maintaining and setting it up yourself. In this sense, the kart itself, within the same tier, does not really
matter. The 2 most impressive laptimes have been set in karts that would not be anywhere near the first named starting from top down (both chassis and engine wise)... all driver

Don't worry about meat.. size your seat correctly, get a good deep seat, good rib protector gear and things will be fine. All sorts of skinny kids kart... skinny people in their 20s - 50s too lol
Why put on more weight to disadvantage yerself manz? Lol a correctly sized seat should do the job fine. And yes good rib protector is a must for race karts. Most of the top karts look quite closely speced and having it mainly boil down to driver capabilities and pit crew support gives all a fairer chance and makes it more enjoyable to all.

U want more meat?? I give u la, I wanna lose meat! :P

EKen4 wrote:Shall I make this thread a sticky, so that it can become a more accessible thread for regular go-karting meetups?

Jyoji, u can edit the subject heading right?
Yup done~~ 8)
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Post by ShaunSG » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:25 am

Yah... the thing is there are at least 3 slightly pudgy guys who despite all the right safety gear, have gotten rib contusions and hairline fractures from running their race karts at kartright. They were all experienced too, esp one of them. It's from the high speed sweeper at the end of the backstraight.. the high laterals there combined with the vertical jarring really does a number on the left side ribs . Thankfully the ribs are supposed to get stronger after they heal. Have to warm up properly and run as snug and deep a seat as you practically can with a good rib guard.

Karts are awesome.. on cheap tires already easily pull more lateral G than a full-on Porsche Cup or Aston Martin Cup GT car.
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terch
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Post by terch » Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:24 am

broke my ribs at 2008's changi temp track at the airshow grounds too. right side on the hi speed left hander. very bumpy there then.

Dunno about the stronger bit but makes sense.

Spunkett, you prolly need a size 1-2 seat to keep your skinny frame in the race kart.

Let me know when you are free. I have very little free time in the last year but plan to make amends. Since Kartright opened I have been only 4 times.

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Post by ShaunSG » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:09 am

terch wrote:broke my ribs at 2008's changi temp track at the airshow grounds too. right side on the hi speed left hander. very bumpy there then.
Have a friend that broke both sides at Changi on the same day lol. I broke right side at tuas, and left side at kartright... and now I'm hoping there'll be no more interruptions of that sort because 2 - 6 weeks is way too long to be out of action.... really messes up the karting-fitness base
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Post by ShaunSG » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:56 pm

Today's 3 hr session - 1.5 hours dry, 1.5 hours raining... uncrowded..only 6 karts out... perfect...
New personal best on medium compound tires worn to their cords.

Also, track record is no longer 34.2, but 33.9! The kart that runs that costs around 18K new and has ~40hp (vs Rotax 28hp) gets wound pretty darn high vs the other KF2 engines. The unmodified Rotax records are all around 35.1. Modified Rotax around 34.5. All with front brakes, fresh tires, and new chassis', 08/09 engines. 2010 IAME KF2 engine apparently will be a beast quite far beyond the older models :shock:
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Post by terch » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:50 pm

wow that's fast,

mine's on a 28hp Vortex ROK with only rear brakes and I'll do a consistent 37.4-38. After 10 laps, I'll be knackered.

Trying to break the 37s to the 36s...

driving in the rain is shiokado on slicks.

How about this Sunday?

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Post by ShaunSG » Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:45 am

terch wrote:wow that's fast,

mine's on a 28hp Vortex ROK with only rear brakes and I'll do a consistent 37.4-38. After 10 laps, I'll be knackered.

Trying to break the 37s to the 36s...
There is a very fit and experienced karter who does a 35.1 on an old ~04 unmodified rotax max and Haase chassis. No front brakes. But tires were Bridgestones which are supposed to give slight advantage. His dad is one of those old experts too.

My chassis is an '04 Haase, so I used to think that the Rotax Max that came with it was an '04, but I only recently learned it is an '02. Tires are MG yellows (mediums). No front brake. Currently in the 36.5 - 36.7 range with dead tires (5 months, 40 heat cycles, 400 laps). Friend who is 15kg heavier than me goes 38-39 in same kart. Tires getting replaced right now, hope to go low 36, high 35 the next session with the new ones. Even on fresh tires kart still has a slight push to it esp on this tight turn track. Still a tooth off on gearing (12/83) and a jet size off on carb according to our mech who is a very experienced and good karter.

Setup makes a huge difference. A friend who has an '09 Haase Chassis with an '06 Rotax Max was stuck at 36.5 for weeks, finally decided to tweak axle widths and jetting and immediately went 35.8. Another friend stuck at 36.0 on a SuperROK (35 hp), tweaked torsion bar and rear axle stiffness.. went 35.2! So I'm hoping tweaking setup on our kart will yield time kind of like that. It is set up for the previous owner who is a lot shorter and lighter (CG x and z position huge effect on handling since driver is 30-50% total run weight), and for Tuas which is more of a sweeping circuit... little push may be good. Haven't changed a single thing since getting the kart, except for the rear sprocket to gear for Kartright.

Have been focusing on driver fitness and technique instead while keeping baselines, since there is so much to get familiar with that is different from sports cars (carb power delivery, lack of a differential, under/over steer gradients, natural frequencies and relative absolute lack of transients, steering, brake and body loads). The power delivery of a single gear kart (low end lag) is very different from a 6 spd shifter kart where it's always pulling almost instantly and always strong. Former is the relative equivalent of a momentum vehicle vs the latter (point and shoot, but only relatively).

I've driven some '08 and '09 CRG and Corsa karts and the stock new Rotax max engines and the mid range is just massive. Corner exits are so good. They say peak power is the same... sure... but there's no way power width is the same, no way no how man. Know a guy with a small engine dyno in SG.. tempted to take a few engines to have them measured.

Knackered is right... after 15 laps my head's about to fall off lol. Need to buy a gym machine for the neck, or kart twice or thrice to build it up. Karting at night probably helps because in the daytime very often it's heat that is the limiting factor. Body overheats before muscles can really strengthen through repetition. Thick black suit + blazing sun + exhaust heat coming through seat back + hot air rising off track surface + closed off helmet = searing hot
driving in the rain is shiokado on slicks.
We had our wet wheelset go on the kart hehah.. the rain was too heavy for slicks and there was lots of deep standing water that overwhelmed the new wets even. Nearly drowned the engine too. Small downside is the slightly not so nice smelling water that runs off the grass areas and drenches everything - suit, helmet through vents, etc. Paying homage to the gods of neutralsteer is great fun though.
How about this Sunday?
Have to see how much I can heal today. The current seat is slightly oversize for me cos I share the kart with a friend who is about 15kg heavier (and gaining), so when I drive it I still get kind of beat up. Need to buy a Tillett insert. I may just pop by for a visit :D
Last edited by ShaunSG on Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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terch
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Post by terch » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:30 am

Had a good spin last night with the usual guys last night, slick and wet track drying out as the session progressed.

started in the early 40s, 40.14->>> to 37.8....very hard to get below for myself, spinning and drifting on the wet non-racing lines as the rain had given us a heat respite but increased the enjoyment factor.

New brake pads and needed 2 outings to find the new bite point and wear off the copper layer.

Think the kart needs more setup and also me having more balls.... :o

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Post by ShaunSG » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:59 pm

Real nice mate :D The right hand sweeper at the end of the back straight in the wet is nice..you can be drift through it and then across the little short chute flick it sharply over to the left in a big way for the left hairpin after hahah... fun as hell.

You're lucky to be a fairly typical height and weight for a karter, which makes it easy to get a good reference driver. That way you can see immediately how much of it is driver and how much it is setup.

Wanted to head down yesterday evening too, but had a prearranged match with some other friends.

You attending the official opening? Exhibition run in the morning, and then that same evening the 4 hour endurance race happens, so it should be an interesting day!
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Post by terch » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:06 pm

yup, will try to attend.

It will be a nice programme

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Post by ShaunSG » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:07 pm

Another great day today. Perfect sunny weather that cooled late in the session, stayed well hydrated, 0 bruises. Track not too crowded.

MG yellows were replaced with new ones and today another personal best at 35.8. This '02 rotax max engine has been low on power since we got it, but has gotten worse after drinking all that water in the last rain session (stumbles and misfires here and there on the straights). Mechanic says compression is affected "alot", and the jetting is still off. Need an engine rebuild and a new piston. Gearing was also still off by a tooth (~10% torque-RPM trade), but that should be going in this coming week too, along with appropriate jet.

2 good competitive friends drove my kart for the first time and confirmed power was significantly down. They still clocked with 0.4 sec of my PB. I drove their karts about 5 laps each and got to within 0.3 sec and 0.1 sec of their own PB's on that day (35.55 and 35.48 ) in their own karts despite one of the karts having freshly rotated front tires which hurts the initial laps, and a deflated left front tire on top of that - when I hopped in to do my stints. On the other one, matched a 2nd reference driver who I respect a lot (extremely fit commando, triathlete, karter since young). Have no illusions about hanging with him for 30 or even 15 laps though. Have to do a lot more cross training.

Today has really underlined that setup and the chassis / engine really make the last bit of difference after the driver. Both of their setups are really nice, newer hardware, one has lots of grip with good power, goes where you steer. Other one has less grip (dead tires) but nice and loose without scrubbing speed while in yaw stays in the power range and has a 25% more powerful engine (rated)... effortless steering and brakes. Dying to drive both again. Under pressure from the vendors too and will probably dump my '02/'04 hardware and go '09 or '10 soon, front brakes and all. The SMSA endurance event was a success, great atmosphere, interesting, fun - so it is a big draw.

===

Met Chee Hon and Ryan Lee at the track.. good stuff. Think they're considering buying karts soon. All you guys teetering on the edge, just jump on in and join the party. IMO, the most fun you can have on 4 wheels outside of mid and high end Formula/LMP (or based) cars, and for just 1/20th - 1/50th the cost.
Last edited by ShaunSG on Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Spunkett » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:35 am

Ok, i'll sound like a wimp. Only managed one session on a fun kart and this morning, i felt like i got beaten up by thugs.
Terch: can you please weigh in on this. I get persistently the same bruised vertebrae after i kart. It's bone pain, not muscle. Am I going to happily bounce my way to a slipped disc?
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