Go-Kart Sessions/Information/Discussions
Woops haven't been checking this forum much, hence the delay, but sure I remember you man. I'm sure Ben will be happy to sell you a new updated EVR hahah. Then you should join the local championship in 2011!suzukii wrote:hey shaun,
Its keith here. Hope you remember me. Just chanced on this thread. I was racing in the rotax max championship last year. Bought a Tony Kart EVR, but have since sold it. I'm still keen on karting so next time you guys hit the track let me know!
keith
94881807
Have you driven Kartright track yet? It's great despite being small. Normalized for stint duration in a race kart, it's the most challenging outdoor track I've driven (out of 7), for various reasons.
Too much random rain of late... will call when weather clears up a bit. Show you our fully equipped war wagon
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Spunkett, my friends and I are selling our Tillett rib guards - R4 (one in small that will fit you for sure, one in medium) as well as a large Ribtec. The R4s are in good condition, and the Ribtec is virtually new, used only once.
The Tillett guards are great absolutely nothing wrong with them at all, just that we're upgrading to BHSTs that are supposed to be even better, just pricier
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Terch... you're not giving up karting are you? I'm trying to get Kao IN.
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While here...
7 racecars arranged in order of steering sensitivity (steering angle vs lat G across a lap). 6 of them range from 100K - 2 mil per vehicle in cost. 1 is a supercar, 1 a GT racecar, the remainder all formula racecars of varying cost and complexity. Only the F1 car beats an average racekart (18K) in steering sensitivity. In other factors like jerk, yaw rate under control, duration between peak accelerations in opposite vectors, etc. only 1 type of car can match, and only some of the time. The vast majority of the time (~80%) they perform under that because the course does not demand it of the car. All other cars outside of this can't even touch it, regardless of course, because of physical inability to generate required forces and moments. Guess which is which in the chart...
Not surprising so many top tier drivers, including F1 drivers, stay sharp in karts in the off season. Nothing beats the intensity, cost, that these things run.
Don't pick on the different layouts and best fits please cos each of the 4 software packages has a different layout and its own limitations. Scaling was done while making the composite. The total scale is 50 degrees SWA by 3G. 0 for both is in the middle of each square. F if offset because it's off an oval.. superspeedway high bank
KART OR DIE
Here goes,
A - Supercar
B - Formula
C - Higher Formula
D - GT
E - Kart
F - Indy
G - F1
A - Supercar
B - Formula
C - Higher Formula
D - GT
E - Kart
F - Indy
G - F1
ShaunSG wrote: While here...
7 racecars arranged in order of steering sensitivity (steering angle vs lat G across a lap). 6 of them range from 100K - 2 mil per vehicle in cost. 1 is a supercar, 1 a GT racecar, the remainder all formula racecars of varying cost and complexity. Only the F1 car beats an average racekart (18K) in steering sensitivity. In other factors like jerk, yaw rate under control, duration between peak accelerations in opposite vectors, etc. only 1 type of car can match, and only some of the time. The vast majority of the time (~80%) they perform under that because the course does not demand it of the car. All other cars outside of this can't even touch it, regardless of course, because of physical inability to generate required forces and moments. Guess which is which in the chart...
Not surprising so many top tier drivers, including F1 drivers, stay sharp in karts in the off season. Nothing beats the intensity, cost, that these things run.
Don't pick on the different layouts and best fits please cos each of the 4 software packages has a different layout and its own limitations. Scaling was done while making the composite. The total scale is 50 degrees SWA by 3G. 0 for both is in the middle of each square. F if offset because it's off an oval.. superspeedway high bank
When are you going to try out a race kart? You're about my size, you can take one of my karts these days. You're a good driver so it should be interesting!Pdreams wrote:Here goes,
A - Supercar
B - Formula
C - Higher Formula
D - GT
E - Kart
F - Indy
G - F1
A - Supercar (course speed focusing on proportion and degree of sweepers on a scale of 1 - 100 with 100 being the fastest and most sweeping - is 80 in this case)
B - GT car (60)
C - FV6 (65)
D - LMP (identical to IRL road course config) (70)
E - Race kart (25)
F - IRL superspeedway config (100)
G - F1 medium-high speed road course (75)
F isn't a fair comparison because of the high average speed range, along with vertical inertia load that artificially raises the sensitivity and still it is nearly identical to a kart on a tight slow course that's uncharacteristic of most kart courses internationally. A race kart on a bigger more sweeping course would yield considerably higher average sensitivity. Would be interesting to compare it to F1 then.
Isolating turns would also show up the extremes of each car type, instead of the more muted average (still a good picture of average sensitivity across a lap). In isolation, F1 at 130R would probably be king beast by far
KART OR DIE
Had to guess between B) and D). Was thinking D) was the GT car as the scale had pretty much peak its lat. G compared to the others. But the slope would be right for what you revealed. Having said that, what's the max. lat G for each of these vehicles? Interesting plots actually.ShaunSG wrote:A - Supercar (course speed focusing on proportion and degree of sweepers on a scale of 1 - 100 with 100 being the fastest and most sweeping - is 80 in this case)Pdreams wrote:Here goes,
A - Supercar
B - Formula
C - Higher Formula
D - GT
E - Kart
F - Indy
G - F1
B - GT car (60)
C - FV6 (65)
D - LMP (identical to IRL road course config) (70)
E - Race kart (25)
F - IRL superspeedway config (100)
G - F1 medium-high speed road course (75)
Did you mean to try out one of your karts? I would have to turn down this nice gesture if only because I cannot afford to damage any of them. I am sure they are alot of fun though.
The peaks of the best fit curve are only an average and the course characteristics influence it heavily, as does the steering geometry and aero. Closer to ideal is to compare turns of identical driven radii only. It just takes more time to do it. Most time consuming, but ideal, is to have all the cars run the same course in the same session and compare specific turns only.Pdreams wrote: Had to guess between B) and D). Was thinking D) was the GT car as the scale had pretty much peak its lat. G compared to the others. But the slope would be right for what you revealed.
Still, the comparison as it is, shows up strong tendencies. Karts despite lacking any downforce at all, and running on such a tight track, still forms an impressively steep steering sensitivity gradient.
Peak sustained (non-spike), range for course and spec variables...Having said that, what's the max. lat G for each of these vehicles? Interesting plots actually.
Supercar: 1.1 - 1.4 G
GT car: 1.6 to 2.0 G
FV6: 2.3 - 3.0 G
LMP or IRL road course: 2.3 - 4.0 G
sprint kart: 2.2 - 3.0 G
F1: 2.5 - 5.8 G
Nonsense... the cheapest of the karts (yet one that delivers literally 99% of the performance of the newest ones) can burn down completely for total loss, and it would be no more than a set of decent coilovers. Skipping a single MME race can fund a whole season (5 rounds) in 1 championship, with at least 3 regional championships to pick from, including new and good hardware.I would have to turn down this nice gesture if only because I cannot afford to damage any of them.
It's obviously not a question of cost.
Also take a 100-300K road registerd car, spend another 10-30K a year tracking it at SIC, do that for 10 years.... and compare that final 200-600K loss to what's been learned, at what intensity, vs what quality of competitor. It just can't compare. Any replacement of major components or any major accident is throwing away more money by the thousands, often tens of thousands. Worse still for totalling, assuming the owner doesn't want to commit insurance fraud and make a false claim.
Last edited by ShaunSG on Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
KART OR DIE
Hi Shaun,ShaunSG wrote:Nonsense... the cheapest of the karts (yet one that delivers literally 99% of the performance of the newest ones) can burn down completely for total loss, and it would be no more than a set of decent coilovers. Skipping a single MME race can fund a whole season (5 rounds) in 1 championship, with at least 3 regional championships to pick from, including new and good hardware.Pdreams wrote:
I would have to turn down this nice gesture if only because I cannot afford to damage any of them.
It's obviously not a question of cost.
Also take a 100-300K road registerd car, spend another 10-30K a year tracking it at SIC, do that for 10 years.... and compare that final 200-600K loss to what's been learned, at what intensity, vs what quality of competitor. It just can't compare. Any replacement of major components or any major accident is throwing away more money by the thousands, often tens of thousands. Worse still for totalling, assuming the owner doesn't want to commit insurance fraud and make a false claim.
Actually I do mean it. Naturally, your breakdown is quite accurate but given how the road registered car is a daily drive and tracking is more a bonus to have for me.
Definitely for someone who spends more on the roadcar to go tracking and looking for the same kind of intensity, karting would be an efficient model for the reasons you mentioned. Although, I do enjoy driving around in a decent set of coilover, if only to appreciate how different the cars have become as a daily drive.
don't like that lah...are you telling me that the only way you'll drive it is if i tell you "please go ahead and run some laps in it.. free of charge. Any and all damage incurred i will take care of" ?Pdreams wrote:Hi Shaun,
Actually I do mean it.
heaha you like senna right? schumacher? not curious to experience 1/5 of what they did/do, instead of 1/10 ? it's our only chance man.. short of a few hundred k to mil dollar formula based or prototype based racecarsDefinitely for someone who spends more on the roadcar to go tracking and looking for the same kind of intensity, karting would be an efficient model for the reasons you mentioned. Although, I do enjoy driving around in a decent set of coilover, if only to appreciate how different the cars have become as a daily drive.
KART OR DIE
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- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:32 am
Thought I should post given the karters here.
I'm currently selling a Rotaxmax/Biesse go-kart for $4.5k
More info can be found in this thread.
Thank you.
I'm currently selling a Rotaxmax/Biesse go-kart for $4.5k
More info can be found in this thread.
Thank you.
There will be an iFAST Singapore Corporate Karting Challenge held at Kartright Speedway this year. This is the second year of the corporate karting challenge.
You can read more about it here
CNA - http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 58/1/.html
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/pages/iFAST-Sin ... 0883482822
Official website - www.singaporecorporatekartingchallenge.com
You can read more about it here
CNA - http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/ ... 58/1/.html
Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/pages/iFAST-Sin ... 0883482822
Official website - www.singaporecorporatekartingchallenge.com