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S2K suspension options/information

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S2K suspension options/information

Post by t_k » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:46 pm

Hi all,

Need recommendations for coilovers which are bearable for daily driving on the streets, but also competitive enough for improving lap times on the track.

Anyone running the HKS Hipermax 3 Sport? How much stiffer is it than stock (anyone know what the stock spring rates are)? Any hissing/gas noise? My previous DC5 with Tanabe Sustec Pro 7 has an annoying gas noise whenever I went over bumps.

I've read an old post with info on this but I think its been pruned, so any info on which are the best suspension options would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
Last edited by t_k on Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: S2K suspension options

Post by jellyfish » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:27 pm

t_k wrote:Hi all,

Need recommendations for coilovers which are bearable for daily driving on the streets, but also competitive enough for improving lap times on the track.

Anyone running the HKS Hipermax 3 Sport? How much stiffer is it than stock (anyone know what the stock spring rates are)? Any hissing/gas noise? My previous DC5 with Tanabe Sustec Pro 7 has an annoying gas noise whenever I went over bumps.

I've read an old post with info on this but I think its been pruned, so any info on which are the best suspension options would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
i think you can pm our mr green dragon regarding the hks coils, he running on them if i`m not mistaken :wink:
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Post by J-AP2 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:47 pm

Stock Suspension Data

AP1 [00-01]: Fr: 3.9 kg/mm Rr: 5.2 kg/mm
AP1 [02-03]: Fr: 4.4 kg/mm Rr: 5.46 kg/mm
AP2 [04-07]: Fr: 4.75 kg/mm Rr: 4.91 kg/mm
AP2 [08 --]: Fr: 5.07 kg/mm Rr: 5.33 kg/mm
Type-S [08 --]: Fr: 7 kg/mm Rr: 6.25 kg/mm


Aftermarket Spring rates Information

KG/mm sport:
Fr: 7.0kg/mm - Rr: 8.0kg/mm

Neuspeed:
Fr: 5.0kg/mm - Rr: 3.4 kg/mm --- 1.25â€
Last edited by J-AP2 on Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by J-AP2 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:48 pm

Hope the above information helps u dude.

Green Dragon uses KW clubsport. I'm using HKS Hipermax 3 Sport. The HKS Hipermax 3 Sport doesn't make much noise under damping. If u set the dampers close to the softest setting, it's pretty compliant on public roads. On track, it's more than enough fer most, unless u're really pro and need more finer adjustments in hi-speed, low-speed bump/rebound. Spring rates of 13kg/mm and 11kg/mm are fine fer street/track to me. Then again, this is very subjective and depends on individuals. Mr. A can find 16kg/mm spring rates bearable on the street whereas Mr. B finds them bone-shattering.

Since we are talking about the HKS Hipermax 3 Sport, maybe I'll just get some EOI for my coilovers, I might be selling them soon. For further info on them, PM or contact me, I dun want to deviate this thread from general suspension information.
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Post by jellyfish » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:06 pm

J-AP2 wrote:Hope the above information helps u dude.

Green Dragon uses KW clubsport. I'm using HKS Hipermax 3 Sport. The HKS Hipermax 3 Sport doesn't make much noise under damping. If u set the dampers close to the softest setting, it's pretty compliant on public roads. On track, it's more than enough fer most, unless u're really pro and need more finer adjustments in hi-speed, low-speed bump/rebound. Spring rates of 13kg/mm and 11kg/mm are fine fer street/track to me. Then again, this is very subjective and depends on individuals. Mr. A can find 16kg/mm spring rates bearable on the street whereas Mr. B finds them bone-shattering.

Since we are talking about the HKS Hipermax 3 Sport, maybe I'll just get some EOI for my coilovers, I might be selling them soon. For further info on them, PM or contact me, I dun want to deviate this thread from general suspension information.

hahaha my bad, its you lol, bad memory
:wink:
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Post by buja » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:23 pm

im oso running on hks 3 sport.
im lazy, out of the workshop, i never touched the settings at all. lol
straight out of the box yo.....i love da puss puss box.
whoo hoo !

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Post by t_k » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:15 pm

J-AP2 wrote:Hope the above information helps u dude.

Green Dragon uses KW clubsport. I'm using HKS Hipermax 3 Sport. The HKS Hipermax 3 Sport doesn't make much noise under damping. If u set the dampers close to the softest setting, it's pretty compliant on public roads. On track, it's more than enough fer most, unless u're really pro and need more finer adjustments in hi-speed, low-speed bump/rebound. Spring rates of 13kg/mm and 11kg/mm are fine fer street/track to me. Then again, this is very subjective and depends on individuals. Mr. A can find 16kg/mm spring rates bearable on the street whereas Mr. B finds them bone-shattering.

Since we are talking about the HKS Hipermax 3 Sport, maybe I'll just get some EOI for my coilovers, I might be selling them soon. For further info on them, PM or contact me, I dun want to deviate this thread from general suspension information.
Woah, that was rather comprehensive, thanks for going through the trouble. Its great to be part of a community where others respond so readily with so much info. I have an '09 AP1, but since the later AP1s are basically AP2s except for the engine and transmission (correct me if I'm wrong), my stock spring rates ought to be the same as '09 AP2?

I guess the best way to decide would be to either (1) take a ride in a coupla cars with diff coilovers or (2) gauge whats an acceptable stiffness by reference to my previous Tanabe Sustec Pro 7 coilovers for my DC5. Problem with (1) is that you gotta find ppl with the right coilovers willing to let you ride in their cars, and problem with (2) is that I never knew and can't find any info on the spring rates of the Sustec Pro 7 for the DC5.

For the Hipermax Sport, if I set it to close to the softest setting for street, then presumably I'll have to readjust the damper settings for track. Is it easy to access the damper settings or do I have to remove the wheel to gain access to it? Or is there any way of electronically adjusting the damper setting without having to reach under the car?

Again, thanks for the input!

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Post by t_k » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:19 pm

buja wrote:im oso running on hks 3 sport.
im lazy, out of the workshop, i never touched the settings at all. lol
straight out of the box yo.....i love da puss puss box.
whoo hoo !
How comfy are the out-of-the-box factory settings? Do they make little/no noise under damping like J-AP2 said? Although since I'm getting a J's 70RS exhaust I reckon I won't be able to hear the damping noise anyway, lol

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Post by danielchow » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:44 pm

im on KW CS, with upgraded stiffer springs. u are more than welcome to try m anytime you wish!
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Post by J-AP2 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:16 am

t_k wrote:Woah, that was rather comprehensive, thanks for going through the trouble. Its great to be part of a community where others respond so readily with so much info. I have an '09 AP1, but since the later AP1s are basically AP2s except for the engine and transmission (correct me if I'm wrong), my stock spring rates ought to be the same as '09 AP2?

I guess the best way to decide would be to either (1) take a ride in a coupla cars with diff coilovers or (2) gauge whats an acceptable stiffness by reference to my previous Tanabe Sustec Pro 7 coilovers for my DC5. Problem with (1) is that you gotta find ppl with the right coilovers willing to let you ride in their cars, and problem with (2) is that I never knew and can't find any info on the spring rates of the Sustec Pro 7 for the DC5.

For the Hipermax Sport, if I set it to close to the softest setting for street, then presumably I'll have to readjust the damper settings for track. Is it easy to access the damper settings or do I have to remove the wheel to gain access to it? Or is there any way of electronically adjusting the damper setting without having to reach under the car?

Again, thanks for the input!
No worries...yup yer spring rates are likely to mirror the standard AP2 '09 spring rates. The Sustec Pro7 for the DC5 should sport Fr: 10kg/mm and Rr: 12kg/mm spring rates as standard if I'm not wrong. Default damper settings for the HKS Hipermax 3 Sport out of the box is 20clicks, out of 30(I think it's 30, never counted).

The damper settings on the HKS Hipermax 3 Sport can be easily accessed and adjusted, both front n rear. U dun need to get under the car fer damper adjustments. My rears are customised for easy adjustment. I'll show u wot I mean when we meet up. There is no electronic component fer adjustment such as the TEIN EDFC or Tanabe TEAS. U're welcome to take a ride in my car and feel out the Hipermax 3 Sport if u wish to.

I will be out of town from tmr until friday night. Perhaps this saturday night or during the next meetup I can show u how the adjustments are done and let u have a feel of the ride.
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Post by slowman » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:15 am

I am also running hks hipermax 3 sport.

You probably don't want to run it too soft (>20 clicks) on the road. I hit humps in carparks with the HKS recommended ride height at 20 clicks.

At 10 clicks, I find some roads unagreeable, especially those with patches that cover up recent digs. At 10 clicks, I cannot clear King Albert Park McDonald's car park entrance and I have to be very careful at Bugis junction.

At 30 clicks, it still feels way stiffer than stock. Your significant other might object.

No hissing or gas noise, but a little squeak from the back sometimes.

Adjusting the front is easy, just open the hood.
Adjusting the rear is easy without a spare, just unlatch the padding and use your skinny fingers. Don't know if the spare will block.
I adjust them before and after track days.

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Post by t_k » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:34 am

slowman wrote:I am also running hks hipermax 3 sport.

You probably don't want to run it too soft (>20 clicks) on the road. I hit humps in carparks with the HKS recommended ride height at 20 clicks.

At 10 clicks, I find some roads unagreeable, especially those with patches that cover up recent digs. At 10 clicks, I cannot clear King Albert Park McDonald's car park entrance and I have to be very careful at Bugis junction.

At 30 clicks, it still feels way stiffer than stock. Your significant other might object.

No hissing or gas noise, but a little squeak from the back sometimes.

Adjusting the front is easy, just open the hood.
Adjusting the rear is easy without a spare, just unlatch the padding and use your skinny fingers. Don't know if the spare will block.
I adjust them before and after track days.
Sorry for the noob questions below, but I'm a bit confused...

1) Out of the box damper settings is 20 clicks out of 30. Do these damper settings/clicks adjust stiffness or ride height or both?

2) How is it that you hit humps in carparks with 20 clicks (on softer setting), but you also find it hard to clear KAP Macs and Bugis on 10 clicks (on harder setting)?

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Post by slowman » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:08 am

t_k wrote:
slowman wrote:I am also running hks hipermax 3 sport.

You probably don't want to run it too soft (>20 clicks) on the road. I hit humps in carparks with the HKS recommended ride height at 20 clicks.

At 10 clicks, I find some roads unagreeable, especially those with patches that cover up recent digs. At 10 clicks, I cannot clear King Albert Park McDonald's car park entrance and I have to be very careful at Bugis junction.

At 30 clicks, it still feels way stiffer than stock. Your significant other might object.

No hissing or gas noise, but a little squeak from the back sometimes.

Adjusting the front is easy, just open the hood.
Adjusting the rear is easy without a spare, just unlatch the padding and use your skinny fingers. Don't know if the spare will block.
I adjust them before and after track days.
Sorry for the noob questions below, but I'm a bit confused...

1) Out of the box damper settings is 20 clicks out of 30. Do these damper settings/clicks adjust stiffness or ride height or both?

2) How is it that you hit humps in carparks with 20 clicks (on softer setting), but you also find it hard to clear KAP Macs and Bugis on 10 clicks (on harder setting)?
Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Damper settings are separate from ride height settings. Recommended ride height for the HKS is lower than stock ride height. Looks nice and better for tracking, but doesn't play nice with bumps.

At 20 clicks (soft), you can clear most bumps except some badly designed bumps at the top of a slope. The Anchorpoint carpark entrance is one of the worst examples. There's a BIG bump at the transitioning from flat ground to downward slope. There is nothing you can do to avoid hitting it.

The carpark entrance at KAP Macs doesn't have a bump but because the car is turning while transiting to a downslope, you still hit the ground. At 20 clicks, you will hear a painful scratch. At 10 clicks (harder), you still cannot clear. May be at 5 clicks, you can, but I have not tried that yet.

Bugis junction has very high bumps on flat ground. At 20 clicks, you are almost guaranteed to hit the bumps at the front wheel goes down the bump unless you are going really really slow. At 10 clicks, you will probably clear if you are slow enough. Oh, don't exit the middle road exit at Bugis Junction.

So, it is a trade off. You want some sense of comfort? Set to >20 clicks but be very very careful and avoid certain places. Otherwise, at 10 clicks, you can forget comfort and your passenger may complain.

On the stock springs/shocks, I never had to worry about this. Of course, you can run HKS at the higher stock ride height but you lose one of the benefits of changing to stiffer springs.

Having said all that, I love the hard settings on the track!

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Post by t_k » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:12 pm

slowman wrote:
t_k wrote:
slowman wrote:I am also running hks hipermax 3 sport.

You probably don't want to run it too soft (>20 clicks) on the road. I hit humps in carparks with the HKS recommended ride height at 20 clicks.

At 10 clicks, I find some roads unagreeable, especially those with patches that cover up recent digs. At 10 clicks, I cannot clear King Albert Park McDonald's car park entrance and I have to be very careful at Bugis junction.

At 30 clicks, it still feels way stiffer than stock. Your significant other might object.

No hissing or gas noise, but a little squeak from the back sometimes.

Adjusting the front is easy, just open the hood.
Adjusting the rear is easy without a spare, just unlatch the padding and use your skinny fingers. Don't know if the spare will block.
I adjust them before and after track days.
Sorry for the noob questions below, but I'm a bit confused...

1) Out of the box damper settings is 20 clicks out of 30. Do these damper settings/clicks adjust stiffness or ride height or both?

2) How is it that you hit humps in carparks with 20 clicks (on softer setting), but you also find it hard to clear KAP Macs and Bugis on 10 clicks (on harder setting)?
Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Damper settings are separate from ride height settings. Recommended ride height for the HKS is lower than stock ride height. Looks nice and better for tracking, but doesn't play nice with bumps.

At 20 clicks (soft), you can clear most bumps except some badly designed bumps at the top of a slope. The Anchorpoint carpark entrance is one of the worst examples. There's a BIG bump at the transitioning from flat ground to downward slope. There is nothing you can do to avoid hitting it.

The carpark entrance at KAP Macs doesn't have a bump but because the car is turning while transiting to a downslope, you still hit the ground. At 20 clicks, you will hear a painful scratch. At 10 clicks (harder), you still cannot clear. May be at 5 clicks, you can, but I have not tried that yet.

Bugis junction has very high bumps on flat ground. At 20 clicks, you are almost guaranteed to hit the bumps at the front wheel goes down the bump unless you are going really really slow. At 10 clicks, you will probably clear if you are slow enough. Oh, don't exit the middle road exit at Bugis Junction.

So, it is a trade off. You want some sense of comfort? Set to >20 clicks but be very very careful and avoid certain places. Otherwise, at 10 clicks, you can forget comfort and your passenger may complain.

On the stock springs/shocks, I never had to worry about this. Of course, you can run HKS at the higher stock ride height but you lose one of the benefits of changing to stiffer springs.

Having said all that, I love the hard settings on the track!
Ok so basically at the recommended out-of-the-box ride height, softer damper settings (>20) result in more "compression" or "rebound" which may result in the friont mper hitting/scratching the ground?

What happens if I set the ride height even lower than the recommended out-of-the-box setting? Logically, that will require even stiffer damper settings to prevent the front bumper from hitting the ground?

As for the spare tyre, is there a legal requirement that we carry around a spare? If not I'm gonna take it out to save weight and to allow easier access to the rear damper settings. Like you said, when I start tracking I'm gonna need to adjust the damper settings before and after.

Thanks for all the info btw!

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Post by J-AP2 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:23 pm

t_k wrote:
Ok so basically at the recommended out-of-the-box ride height, softer damper settings (>20) result in more "compression" or "rebound" which may result in the friont mper hitting/scratching the ground?

What happens if I set the ride height even lower than the recommended out-of-the-box setting? Logically, that will require even stiffer damper settings to prevent the front bumper from hitting the ground?

As for the spare tyre, is there a legal requirement that we carry around a spare? If not I'm gonna take it out to save weight and to allow easier access to the rear damper settings. Like you said, when I start tracking I'm gonna need to adjust the damper settings before and after.

Thanks for all the info btw!
The reduced compression will prolly be wot sets yer front bumper or mid-chassis against bigger bumps on the road. If you reduce the default ride height on the coilovers, it doesn't necessarily require a stiffer damper setting, but then once again it also depends on the kind of roads that it's being driven on. If u set it too stiff over relatively bumpy roads, u will find that available traction is reduced. I generally find the roads in Singapore quite alright on this coilover and its spring rates. But then again whenever I see that the roads are bumpy ahead, I usually slow down anyway.

I have not had a spare tyre in my cars fer quite a few years now. :wink: But like wot I've shown u, the damper adjustments fer the rear coilovers can be easily accessed with some modifications, and there's no need to remove any panels to adjust the dampers.
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