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2 types of jerking resolved - Start/Stop & Moving off

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jengwe
2000rpm
2000rpm
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012

2 types of jerking resolved - Start/Stop & Moving off

Postby jengwe » Sun May 06, 2012 10:58 pm

Hi to all,

I have since done up over 30 cars, ranging from 60K to 180k kms.

What I have noticed is there are 2 kinds of Jerk shudder which I term it as:

1.Start-Stop Jerking / Shudder - The vehicle will shudder during braking to a stop at the traffic light. During waiting and when the A/C compressor comes on, shudder is also felt. Upon release of brake to move off, shudder will occur before accelerator is depressed. Thee are also occasions when the rpm at around 700-800 starts to drop to around 500 and then a jump happens and the rpm goes up to 1000. The drop happens all over again till to stop this, shift to N is needed.

2.Moving off Shudder - This vehicle will shudder during acceleration from moving off, just below 1500 rpm and below 20km/h. The shudder occurs momentarily and stops when either 1500rpm or 20km/h is exceeded.

For Start-Stop Shudder, the following factors were found either singularly or in combination.

1. Sparks plugs (Denso - IK20L) not properly tightened : Most cases, the crush washer wasn’t even crushed and I was able with a wrench able to loosen using on finger strength. So watch your mech to make sure he puts the effort in tightening those plugs. Loose plugs will allow exhaust gas to escape, causing jerks and burning the ignition coil.

2. IAC valve rotary vane binding due to grime build-up : Just need patience and diligent cleaning. IAC valve must be detached from throttle body, soaked in diesel and flushed with WD-40. No carb cleaner must be used. Due to binding, the IAC is slow in response and shuddering results when load on engine fluctuates.

3. Vacuum leak from PCV location : The rubber grommet has hardened and loses its grip on the PCV valve, leading to loss of sealing. A sure-fire sign of leak is the build-up of grime around it. The PCV which is yellow, is located at the front of the engine around knee height and behind 3 bolts spaced approx. 10cm apart. The PCV should also be changed as it is likely the spring has weakened.

Moving off Shudder is due to the built up of metal fuzz within the CVT transmission. The intensity and frequency of the shudder can be reduced by changing the CVTF every 20-30k kms.

The shudder is caused by the accumulation of metal fuzz either in the Belt Pulley causing belt slippage ( picture the metal fuzz like mini ball bearings and you will get the pic) or clogging the hydraulic control valve pistons, affecting the hydraulic pressure needed to press the clutch plates together and causing the clutch plates to slip.

However, the removal of the metal fuzz is more effective by performing the Burnishing Procedure as documented by Honda USA to agitate the CVTF and loosen the metal fuzz. This is the only way to reduce the metal fuzz concentration for this type of CVT transmission, less a full overhaul to access the 2 filters and clean up all the hydraulic pistons.

For vehicles over 100k, it would be good if a flush using 2 bottles of CVTF be performed if it was never done before. BTW, I have always used CVTF, if you want to use HMMF, that’s your call but I think its marketing hype.

The Burnish Procedure is as follows:

1. Upon warm up, engage hand and foot brakes and shift from P to R. Gradually floor the accelerator whereby the rpm will hold at around 2500. Do this for 3 seconds and release accelerator.

2. Shift from R to N and depress accelerator to achieve rpm 3000 and hold for 10 seconds to circulate and cool the CVTF. Release accelerator

3. Shift from N to D and floor accelerator for 3 seconds and then release.

4. Shift to N from D and cool the CVTF again.

5. Proceed to drain old CVTF and refill with new.

6. Drive your car around for 10-15mins before performing another burnish, drain and refill.

From our experimenting, I have found that a pretty clean CVT transmission is able to hold the car pretty still on the UP ramp of a standard HDB MSCP. Simply stop at the ramp and without depressing the accelerator, the car should stay without sliding. If A/C on and the vehicle holds, even better.

Repeat this with R but on a DOWN ramp. If the vehicle cannot hold and slides readily, guess a few changes of CVTF is needed.

Finally, I welcome your queries but I do have a full time job so sms me at HP : 96808264 please. Further to this, from now on, I will collect $5 from each AW owner as I need to defray my cost of buying consumables like WD-40, Carb Cleaner, diesel, alum pans, gloves, cotton buds, paper towels……you get the idea.

I usually conduct diagnosis on Thurs evenings from 8pm and then do clean-ups on Sat starting 10am.

Also I am not a mech as my main objective is to inform AW owners of this frustrating jerk issue, so don’t pass me your vehicle and stand there to watch because it would be good for you to learn how to hands-on.

In fact, there has been all round satisfaction when some owners became my part-time helpers in getting the parts stripped out from cars that joined us later in the clean-up sessions.

Cheers

User avatar
yeobt
5000rpm
5000rpm
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008

Postby yeobt » Sun May 06, 2012 11:16 pm

boss, do you do manual car like EK?
i feel my pickup abit jerky. :P
After Spending So Much Time And Money To Own A Car,
You Must Learn To Enjoy The Fun Of Driving It,
Not Stressing Yourself On Your Journey Home.


Image

almondking
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012
Location: Singapore

This vibrating fault is persisting ...

Postby almondking » Mon May 07, 2012 3:53 am

Hi jengwe,

This jerking / vibrating problem is really very annoying. I was supposed to meet you and some forumers at Bishan last Sat, but I was engage somewhere else.

When is the next session that I can join in? I am not technical, but I do change my own bulbs ... :)

Thanks man.

User avatar
blacktyphoon
5000rpm
5000rpm
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004
Location: Where else, but Westsiders
Contact:

Postby blacktyphoon » Tue May 08, 2012 11:45 pm

Just met Jengwe last Sat to do a full clean up of my throttle body. Spent half of the day with him did a thorough clean on my TB. I really learnt alot from him.

All i can say is result was very very good. I am one happy airwaver. Cannot totally say no more jerking my almost 90% is gone.

Thanks Jengwe..Also let me know whenyr next session. If time permits, i can come down assist you so that you dont have to burn yr entire sat...More hand more help..

User avatar
lancer691
4000rpm
4000rpm
Posts: 122
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008

Postby lancer691 » Thu May 10, 2012 11:08 am

Hi guys,if there's a meet up cleaning session pls put a post here. Keen to join in..Thanks

shawnong
4000rpm
4000rpm
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006
Location: Devil Bend

Postby shawnong » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:21 am

i am keen to learn too.
let me know if there is one soon.

Thank You
A fast car is not fast. Unless the driver is fast

pfeet
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012

Re: 2 types of jerking resolved - Start/Stop & Moving of

Postby pfeet » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:27 pm

jengwe wrote:Hi to all,

I have since done up over 30 cars, ranging from 60K to 180k kms.

What I have noticed is there are 2 kinds of Jerk shudder which I term it as:

1.Start-Stop Jerking / Shudder - The vehicle will shudder during braking to a stop at the traffic light. During waiting and when the A/C compressor comes on, shudder is also felt. Upon release of brake to move off, shudder will occur before accelerator is depressed. Thee are also occasions when the rpm at around 700-800 starts to drop to around 500 and then a jump happens and the rpm goes up to 1000. The drop happens all over again till to stop this, shift to N is needed.

2.Moving off Shudder - This vehicle will shudder during acceleration from moving off, just below 1500 rpm and below 20km/h. The shudder occurs momentarily and stops when either 1500rpm or 20km/h is exceeded.

For Start-Stop Shudder, the following factors were found either singularly or in combination.

1. Sparks plugs (Denso - IK20L) not properly tightened : Most cases, the crush washer wasn’t even crushed and I was able with a wrench able to loosen using on finger strength. So watch your mech to make sure he puts the effort in tightening those plugs. Loose plugs will allow exhaust gas to escape, causing jerks and burning the ignition coil.

2. IAC valve rotary vane binding due to grime build-up : Just need patience and diligent cleaning. IAC valve must be detached from throttle body, soaked in diesel and flushed with WD-40. No carb cleaner must be used. Due to binding, the IAC is slow in response and shuddering results when load on engine fluctuates.

3. Vacuum leak from PCV location : The rubber grommet has hardened and loses its grip on the PCV valve, leading to loss of sealing. A sure-fire sign of leak is the build-up of grime around it. The PCV which is yellow, is located at the front of the engine around knee height and behind 3 bolts spaced approx. 10cm apart. The PCV should also be changed as it is likely the spring has weakened.

Moving off Shudder is due to the built up of metal fuzz within the CVT transmission. The intensity and frequency of the shudder can be reduced by changing the CVTF every 20-30k kms.

The shudder is caused by the accumulation of metal fuzz either in the Belt Pulley causing belt slippage ( picture the metal fuzz like mini ball bearings and you will get the pic) or clogging the hydraulic control valve pistons, affecting the hydraulic pressure needed to press the clutch plates together and causing the clutch plates to slip.

However, the removal of the metal fuzz is more effective by performing the Burnishing Procedure as documented by Honda USA to agitate the CVTF and loosen the metal fuzz. This is the only way to reduce the metal fuzz concentration for this type of CVT transmission, less a full overhaul to access the 2 filters and clean up all the hydraulic pistons.

For vehicles over 100k, it would be good if a flush using 2 bottles of CVTF be performed if it was never done before. BTW, I have always used CVTF, if you want to use HMMF, that’s your call but I think its marketing hype.

The Burnish Procedure is as follows:

1. Upon warm up, engage hand and foot brakes and shift from P to R. Gradually floor the accelerator whereby the rpm will hold at around 2500. Do this for 3 seconds and release accelerator.

2. Shift from R to N and depress accelerator to achieve rpm 3000 and hold for 10 seconds to circulate and cool the CVTF. Release accelerator

3. Shift from N to D and floor accelerator for 3 seconds and then release.

4. Shift to N from D and cool the CVTF again.

5. Proceed to drain old CVTF and refill with new.

6. Drive your car around for 10-15mins before performing another burnish, drain and refill.

From our experimenting, I have found that a pretty clean CVT transmission is able to hold the car pretty still on the UP ramp of a standard HDB MSCP. Simply stop at the ramp and without depressing the accelerator, the car should stay without sliding. If A/C on and the vehicle holds, even better.

Repeat this with R but on a DOWN ramp. If the vehicle cannot hold and slides readily, guess a few changes of CVTF is needed.

Finally, I welcome your queries but I do have a full time job so sms me at HP : 96808264 please. Further to this, from now on, I will collect $5 from each AW owner as I need to defray my cost of buying consumables like WD-40, Carb Cleaner, diesel, alum pans, gloves, cotton buds, paper towels……you get the idea.

I usually conduct diagnosis on Thurs evenings from 8pm and then do clean-ups on Sat starting 10am.

Also I am not a mech as my main objective is to inform AW owners of this frustrating jerk issue, so don’t pass me your vehicle and stand there to watch because it would be good for you to learn how to hands-on.

In fact, there has been all round satisfaction when some owners became my part-time helpers in getting the parts stripped out from cars that joined us later in the clean-up sessions.

Cheers


Hi Jengwe

for my 2010 airwave, the jerking occurs when i accelerating between 40 to 70km/h, can feel a sudden jerk forward of the car. Do you have any advise on this? My mechanic stated my gearbox got problem and recommend to overhaul it for $4k.. sian. And he told me that airwave use HMMF oil so by using CVT oil in my airwave, the gearbox parts will wear off... sigh

Pls help
Thanks!
Kenneth

Daryl733
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013

Postby Daryl733 » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:13 pm

Recently my airwave shudder at interval whenever I stop at traffic light/car's idling. Realised that the aircon is not cold intermittently, especially when car's idling/traffic junction. RPM also drop suddenly and there's a "tiak" sound whenever the RPM drop. The problem goes away if I keep the A/C off.

Google abt the problem and that leads me to this forum.

Brought it to my usual mechanic, and realise that the Aircon Fan and the Radiator Fan is not working properly. They are spinning, but a lot slower than usual. That leads to the aircon being overheated when the car stops at junction/idling, and the "tiak" sound is the car switching off the aircon to prevent over heating. When the car is moving, the wind blow through the radiator and aircon fan keeps it running so the problem doesn't arise.

The mechanic give a few knock to both fans using a screw driver and they start spinning up fast. He reckon that the carbon lubricant in the fan is worn out and thus the fans doesn't spin up that well. The mechanic recommend me to replace the fan, should be doing that soon.

Currently no replacement yet, and everything seems to work at the moment for the past day. Just hope this add in to the knowledge based here so we can all learn what's the possible reason to these problem and the solution.

Marc11
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013

Postby Marc11 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:05 am

HI jengwe,

I have been experiencing 2 types of jerking that you have mention in this post. Will there be another meet up? I do hope to gain and learn from you.

reapth
1000rpm
1000rpm
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2007

Postby reapth » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:58 am

Hi can anyone know how to rectify the jerkiness of airwave? Appreciate if u can pm me at 97539308 thk u very much! Rgds, Reapth

bensonawyong
1000rpm
1000rpm
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2013

Postby bensonawyong » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:51 pm

Daryl733 wrote:Recently my airwave shudder at interval whenever I stop at traffic light/car's idling. Realised that the aircon is not cold intermittently, especially when car's idling/traffic junction. RPM also drop suddenly and there's a "tiak" sound whenever the RPM drop. The problem goes away if I keep the A/C off.

Google abt the problem and that leads me to this forum.

Brought it to my usual mechanic, and realise that the Aircon Fan and the Radiator Fan is not working properly. They are spinning, but a lot slower than usual. That leads to the aircon being overheated when the car stops at junction/idling, and the "tiak" sound is the car switching off the aircon to prevent over heating. When the car is moving, the wind blow through the radiator and aircon fan keeps it running so the problem doesn't arise.

The mechanic give a few knock to both fans using a screw driver and they start spinning up fast. He reckon that the carbon lubricant in the fan is worn out and thus the fans doesn't spin up that well. The mechanic recommend me to replace the fan, should be doing that soon.

Currently no replacement yet, and everything seems to work at the moment for the past day. Just hope this add in to the knowledge based here so we can all learn what's the possible reason to these problem and the solution.


The shudder could be your engine mounts wear out. I also have that problem while stationery at traffic lights but I am ignoring it as it does not happen often. Once in a blue moon

igto
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015

Re: 2 types of jerking resolved - Start/Stop & Moving off

Postby igto » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:01 pm

is this thread still active?


would like TS' skill in diagnosing my Airwave's shudder.........

Genghis khan
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017

Re: 2 types of jerking resolved - Start/Stop & Moving off

Postby Genghis khan » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:28 am

Hi all

Where can i get help to resolve my airwave jerking issue.?


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