Question on Ek4 AUTO gear box...advice pls...

[csa]

if only i know dirt22 is the guru of this auto gearbox

i own 96 EK4 Sir. B16a auto. have the worst nightmare with the gearbox. from day 1 i own it, the car is clocking 250k km. i send the gearbox to overhaul (regret spending on this) after it gave me problems on "delay shift" D4 and R affected. after overhaul (only seal, o-ring, gasket change!)

after driving for 4months, car cannot move. tow back to workshop that done the overhauling. gearbox check. and this time cluth lining/plate change. screw them up and down asking why never bother to change during first overhaul. they told me still in good condition. damn! spend another big fortune on it again.

after driving for around 11-12months, worst nightmare come! shit problematic in gear 3 - gear 4. its drags too long to shift. after some time, it stuck in gear 2 sometime gear 3. drove to workshop. 3rd time open up gearbox! guess what?? bearing broke into pieces! cause one gear/synchros to damage. there were metal parts and debris all over the gearbox. crunch terribly! gearbox k.o!

ask them how this can happen. they cant give me a firm answers.
no way to overhaul as this require a total rebuilt! spending the 2 times overhauling enable me to do an auto-manual conversion. this time change to a recond gearbox.

now been driving around 2 months. so far so good. but still this problems arise in my mind. what could have been the culprit of this damage???

for info, this is a daily driven car. 6 days a week is doing long distance driving - around 70-90km per day. 90% highways. 10% city. working purpose. sunday is 100% city driving. hardly full throttle! very gentle driving.

i wonder how this recond gearbox will last me. love this ek a lot. but gearbox problems makes me live in hell!

This is a pretty old/dead thread, luckily I was just scanning through old posts and saw an update so popped by.....

Like I previously said, I'm no guru, haha anyone who calls himself a guru is a liar and an arrogant one at that heh heh heh....

My own ride is a '96 EK4 as well, still running strong with a few more years left on the 2nd COE....

If I may comment, your first mistake may have been in overhauling your automatic gearbox. Pardon me for saying this, but there is a high hit-and-miss reliability ratio with regards to overhauling "cheap" automatic gearboxes in Singapore. By "cheap" I mean something nonfancy like our EK autobox. Most-times you are better off having your TRUSTED mechanic source for a replacement unit from the scrapyards, take it apart to check for things that need to be changed, then have it installed.

Number 1, it saves you down-time. You don't need to have your car stripped of its innards while some mechanic is overhauling/reconditioning your gearbox. You can be driving around till the unit is ready to be installed, and the down-time is like max 1-2 days?

Number 2, old and weary or worse, damaged autoboxes are sometimes un-reconditionable or un-overhaulable. Just like my engine has a worn piston ring in cylinder 2 but if I overhaul the engine it won't actually do much improvement since the pistons have worn the cylinders and I'd be better off just building up a new engine etc.

Right now that you've had a replacement autobox put in, time to take good care of it. Change your ATF more regularly than normal (throw the manufacturer handbook out the window!), I used to change ATF every 5000-10000km depending on whether I tracked more or tracked less.... Since your mileage is abit on the higher side, I would suggest peg it to your servicing interval (I assume its every 10000km?) Normal ATF doesn't cost much, and religiously changing it may just save you bigger headaches down the road. Penny wise pound foolish ya know?

Stick to the reliable Honda ATF, reliable and affordable. If you don't track, there is no point going for expensive ATFs since you won't really reap the benefits.

"Delay-shifting" in a conventional autobox, sometimes can be easily fixed. It could have been as simple as the fact that your ATF was waaaay too old. Back then when I was still actively tracking in the automatic, there was an instance when I was burling through some corners in Sepang when my gearbox just refused to change gears, up or down. When it did change, it was after a lengthy delay. Pitted in, popped bonnet and realised the ATF plug was "popped out" and I was drooling ATF over the floor. Topped up with fresh ATF and went back out, was doing fine until the same problem occured. Cut short the session, drove back Singapore with intermittent delay-shift problems, next available working day popped by workshop and drained the ATF.

Results? ATF had "broken-down", somehow I had forgotten to change the ATF on my last servicing and the fluid wasn't able to hold the heat from the abuse. Change to all fresh all new ATF and the next track session went smoothly with no gearchange issues.

So case in point, never assume your fluids are still good, they are the cheapest things to change and if the problems go away, you just saved yourself a heaps of mechanical repair etc etc money. If they don't solve the issue, well it was a small cost outlay and your regular workshop should be able to salvage and reuse most of it.

Hope this lengthy ramble helps!

Cheers,

Dirt22

hi dirt! finally a respond
if i have browse through this forum earlier, i would not have been doing the overhauling already! anyway whatever over is over.

i always makes some reading and no.1 thing that autobox fear the most is heat. i am not sure if my radiator is problematic or not which cause this autobox to fail on me. FYI my temperature reading on the meter is in the middle. i sit in few Eks and their temperature reading on the meter is below middle. since our autobox have cooling line going thru this radiator, does it affect? or the temperature is engine temperature only?

indeed a mistake by overhauling the autobox in my EK4. i choose to overhaul coz of few reasons:
1. i love this car a lot. when i bought it i try to restore it to its original condition as possible.
2. thinking overhauling this autobox will gives me trouble free since parts are new.
3. FYI, my place here in miri sarawak, there is not much of halfcut choice compare to kl/johor/singapore. parts are expensive. after comparing recond transplant and overhaul i choose overhaul

i hope that this autobox that im using now wont gives me the nightmare again. do u think that installing an autobox cooler is a good move?
is hayden autobox cooler a reliable product?

[DIRT22]

Hi,

You're right in pointing that the killer of all autoboxes is heat; it screws up the autobox in all sorts of ways and we notice it with sluggish gearchanges, non-gearchanges, non-engagement among other easily noticeable faults.

Like I previously mentioned, changing out the gearbox (automatic) fluid is one good preventive step. Alot of people remember to go for regular servicings but like to skimp on other fluids such as brake fluids or gearbox fluids thinking that those things "won't so easily spoil one". Until they kenna, then they look back and slap forehead. Save small amount kenna big repair bills in the end.

Although we run out transmission coolers in conjunction with our rediators, I've yet to see a gearbox fail due to that type of setup. This is of course assuming you drive it as per a normal car is used. Back then when I first started tracking the stock standard setup was what I ran, and it was fine. Later on I ran a HKS ATF cooler in-line with the auto radiator, then standalone without linking to the auto radiator, then ran it standalone with a manual radiator, then standalone with an aftermarket manual radiator....

If you have the spare budget for it, I would recommend you put in a Hayden ATF cooler. Then you can run a manual radiator standalone without having to share the cooling duties between engine and gearbox.

With regards to the temp meter in the dashboard, I take it to mean that you're talking about a stock dashboard. If so having it at the halfway mark is pretty normal, some cars abit lower than others. My stock dash needle also around the halfway mark when temperatures have warmed up to normal driving temps. In fact on track when my Defi water temp and engine oil temp meters hits 110 degrees celcius 120 degrees celcius respectively, that stupid needle is STILL at the halfway mark.

That stock needle, when it DOES start rising, means you are in a world of trouble already. It is THAT retarded and insensitive.

[csa]

Hi,

Although we run out transmission coolers in conjunction with our rediators, I've yet to see a gearbox fail due to that type of setup. This is of course assuming you drive it as per a normal car is used. Back then when I first started tracking the stock standard setup was what I ran, and it was fine. Later on I ran a HKS ATF cooler in-line with the auto radiator, then standalone without linking to the auto radiator, then ran it standalone with a manual radiator, then standalone with an aftermarket manual radiator....

If you have the spare budget for it, I would recommend you put in a Hayden ATF cooler. Then you can run a manual radiator standalone without having to share the cooling duties between engine and gearbox.

If im not mistaken the Hayden ATF cooler is link with the stock radiator?

Like that u have mention, u ran standalone ATF cooler. Meaning separate connection? Manual radiator? Different from automatic radiator?

[DIRT22]

No, the Hayden ATF cooler (for that matter most if not all brands of ATF coolers) are just like oil coolers, they consist of a cooling core and associated plumbling aka hoses/pipings. As such they can be run in tandem with the existing ATF cooler in your auto radiator, or bypass the radiator section and be run standalone.

If you go and check, your auto radiator will have an additional two nipples at the bottom; this is where the inlet and outlet hoses are attached for the gearbox ATF lines. As such, your half length radiator is further separated into the top part (approximately 70 percent) for the engine cooling and the bottom part for the ATF cooling. The stock manual radiator does not have these two additional inlet outlet and as such uses 100 percent of the radiator core for cooling the engine.

If you run an aftermarket ATF cooler, a small one will usually mean that you run in in tandem with the integrated ATF cooler on the auto radiator. If you go for a larger ATF cooler core, however, you will have the option of running it independent of the radiator. This way, you can change the auto radiator to a manual one or even an aftermarket one (like what I eventually did).

[csa]

No, the Hayden ATF cooler (for that matter most if not all brands of ATF coolers) are just like oil coolers, they consist of a cooling core and associated plumbling aka hoses/pipings. As such they can be run in tandem with the existing ATF cooler in your auto radiator, or bypass the radiator section and be run standalone.

If you go and check, your auto radiator will have an additional two nipples at the bottom; this is where the inlet and outlet hoses are attached for the gearbox ATF lines. As such, your half length radiator is further separated into the top part (approximately 70 percent) for the engine cooling and the bottom part for the ATF cooling. The stock manual radiator does not have these two additional inlet outlet and as such uses 100 percent of the radiator core for cooling the engine.

If you run an aftermarket ATF cooler, a small one will usually mean that you run in in tandem with the integrated ATF cooler on the auto radiator. If you go for a larger ATF cooler core, however, you will have the option of running it independent of the radiator. This way, you can change the auto radiator to a manual one or even an aftermarket one (like what I eventually did).

Hayden cooler is just a small one only. Don't see any big size ATF cooler

[DIRT22]

Hayden got a few cooler core sizes......what they say "recommended" for your car may not necessarily be the one that you would want to use.....you can always go for a core size that is meant for a bigger CC engine/car...