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Swapping to stock euro r brake kit

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cl7teckie
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Post by cl7teckie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:33 pm

viper76 wrote: Yes teckie stock brakes can go sepang track or pg track 300m drag..
But depend on whether u wana brake earlier if u using stock brakes or later of u using bbk on track. And of cos u think stock brakes can last on track if continuously drive 3 to 5 rounds aggressively on sepang track? Even our fastest cl7a driver xianhong who clocked 2.48 timing if I nvr remember wrongly the timing say stock brake kit cannot make it on track.

Yes teckie stock brakes can be used on track if drive in relax.mode.not aggressive and maybe two.rounds ...but if like tat dun waste time on track. Singapore road or boleh land.road.will do.
I leave up to u, to make your opinion. For me, I back up my words with facts, figures and data. I do not blunt things on butt feel.

You may drive leisurely on Sepang, but not me. if 70m at turn 1 is not late, then I dont know what is late. If fact, at turn 1, 70m brake is already too early for me, as the stock 300mm brake over-brake, and I under-shoot the apex. And all these while doing 2:58 to 3:02 for 6 continuous lap. No fading was ever felt.

And if you think 2:58 is slow...sure, but do it with a stock CL7A with STOCK camber setting, then u tell me if I CMI lor. I will chk with xianhong on his setting 1st.

For normal road, if you did REAL measurement on wheel speeds (with 300mm brake), you will notice that EBD kicks in, this means that the front brake is already locking up the wheel, aka did its job. And if it is doing its job, I don't think anyone will be doing brake go brake go on normal road.

I do not deny that some BBK are good. 4 pot BBK is more balanced, as I documented a few years ago. But cheap BBK, is really a questionable. Also, I do not believe the 300mm caliper is worth 200 to 400bucks...but a lot less, in my opinion, these days, but I stand to be corrected.
Pls dont ask me for wkshop, as I know none...I only know it is safer and faster to fix cars on my own.

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Post by cl7teckie » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:55 pm

....and one more thing. A lot of pple uses stock pad or some simple aftermarket pad. I clarify that I am use 300mm caliper with stock rotor with SPECIAL pads. That's why the braking is acceptable. No doubt, stock pad CMI.
Pls dont ask me for wkshop, as I know none...I only know it is safer and faster to fix cars on my own.

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Post by jm passion » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:35 am

If u wanna compare the Euro R stock caliper upgrade with those good brand BBK Spoon,Alcon,Js racing & AP of course the braking of the BBK is better but if stock caliper,roto with better pad is good enough for urself then why u need to spend more for BBK. End of the day is up to each owner themselves to justify the braking distance is good enough for their own driving style & liking be it to be use on track or on street. Just express mine own thought and share not comment against anyone juz mine own personal exp cheers.

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Post by xeviouss » Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:57 am

I've never gone to sepang.

but experience w after mkt brand kits is, if its a well designed brake kit,
the bite is still gd when the rotors are quite done.

I tracked my previous car a dc5 on alcons when the rotors were rather closed to finishing, by tt I mean some crescents are really fading but it presented really gd bite.

so stock brake kit, sufficient. But given a choice, if you have the budget,
Why not?

That said, I may have vested interest because I subscribe to having better brakes as a peace of mind and I have a set of jbt 6 potters im selling.

A peer on the fd2r who tracked on sepang with good timings also appreciated a in upgrade in brake kits.

Tt said his timings were consider to be good.
2.3x on stock engine road going car. So when you are really want good timings like tt, you might consider. Otherwise, nothing wrong w sticking to stock brake kits.

no pun intended to anyone.

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Post by jm passion » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:32 am

xeviouss wrote:I've never gone to sepang.

but experience w after mkt brand kits is, if its a well designed brake kit,
the bite is still gd when the rotors are quite done.

I tracked my previous car a dc5 on alcons when the rotors were rather closed to finishing, by tt I mean some crescents are really fading but it presented really gd bite.

so stock brake kit, sufficient. But given a choice, if you have the budget,
Why not?

That said, I may have vested interest because I subscribe to having better brakes as a peace of mind and I have a set of jbt 6 potters im selling.

A peer on the fd2r who tracked on sepang with good timings also appreciated a in upgrade in brake kits.

Tt said his timings were consider to be good.
2.3x on stock engine road going car. So when you are really want good timings like tt, you might consider. Otherwise, nothing wrong w sticking to stock brake kits.

no pun intended to anyone.
Bro Alcon is good but the price to replace the roto sweat la haha

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Post by xeviouss » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:50 pm

jm passion wrote:
xeviouss wrote:I've never gone to sepang.

but experience w after mkt brand kits is, if its a well designed brake kit,
the bite is still gd when the rotors are quite done.

I tracked my previous car a dc5 on alcons when the rotors were rather closed to finishing, by tt I mean some crescents are really fading but it presented really gd bite.

so stock brake kit, sufficient. But given a choice, if you have the budget,
Why not?

That said, I may have vested interest because I subscribe to having better brakes as a peace of mind and I have a set of jbt 6 potters im selling.

A peer on the fd2r who tracked on sepang with good timings also appreciated a in upgrade in brake kits.

Tt said his timings were consider to be good.
2.3x on stock engine road going car. So when you are really want good timings like tt, you might consider. Otherwise, nothing wrong w sticking to stock brake kits.

no pun intended to anyone.
Bro Alcon is good but the price to replace the roto sweat la haha
one cent money, one cent good sometimes.
Dont say rotor. Even the floating pins also not cheap

alot of owners I know replace rotor dont chg pins.
end up also spend 2nd time labor n time to fix it.

caveat emptor.

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Post by puffer71 » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:31 pm

Ask yourself, what kind of driving speed, habits etc do you NORMALLY have? Street driving and track driving are totally different. Even track driving, there are those who goes there have some spirited drive round couple laps, come back to the pits and rest for half hour or an hour and out again. There are some who goes out laps after laps (endurance) for continuous at least 10 laps or so and back to the pits. The latter would require good brake kits and system, cold air ducts to cool the brake disc etc

Coming back to street driving, normal brakes with good pads, braided hoses and good brake fluid would be sufficient. Some may even change and have better brake disc to compliment the braking.

Lastly, even if you have good brake kits, if you don't service them regularly, changing brake fluid and overhaul your brake calipers (pistons, seals, O rings etc), your brake system would not be able to perform well.

Don't waste unnecessary money unless you really require them.

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Post by viper76 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:14 am

xeviouss wrote:I've never gone to sepang.

but experience w after mkt brand kits is, if its a well designed brake kit,
the bite is still gd when the rotors are quite done.

I tracked my previous car a dc5 on alcons when the rotors were rather closed to finishing, by tt I mean some crescents are really fading but it presented really gd bite.

so stock brake kit, sufficient. But given a choice, if you have the budget,
Why not?

That said, I may have vested interest because I subscribe to having better brakes as a peace of mind and I have a set of jbt 6 potters im selling.

A peer on the fd2r who tracked on sepang with good timings also appreciated a in upgrade in brake kits.

Tt said his timings were consider to be good.
2.3x on stock engine road going car. So when you are really want good timings like tt, you might consider. Otherwise, nothing wrong w sticking to stock brake kits.

no pun intended to anyone.

totally agree with u bro....

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Post by viper76 » Sat Aug 03, 2013 1:15 am

puffer71 wrote:Ask yourself, what kind of driving speed, habits etc do you NORMALLY have? Street driving and track driving are totally different. Even track driving, there are those who goes there have some spirited drive round couple laps, come back to the pits and rest for half hour or an hour and out again. There are some who goes out laps after laps (endurance) for continuous at least 10 laps or so and back to the pits. The latter would require good brake kits and system, cold air ducts to cool the brake disc etc

Coming back to street driving, normal brakes with good pads, braided hoses and good brake fluid would be sufficient. Some may even change and have better brake disc to compliment the braking.

Lastly, even if you have good brake kits, if you don't service them regularly, changing brake fluid and overhaul your brake calipers (pistons, seals, O rings etc), your brake system would not be able to perform well.

Don't waste unnecessary money unless you really require them.

bro when u going back to track man/??

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Post by puffer71 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:40 am

viper76 wrote:
puffer71 wrote:Ask yourself, what kind of driving speed, habits etc do you NORMALLY have? Street driving and track driving are totally different. Even track driving, there are those who goes there have some spirited drive round couple laps, come back to the pits and rest for half hour or an hour and out again. There are some who goes out laps after laps (endurance) for continuous at least 10 laps or so and back to the pits. The latter would require good brake kits and system, cold air ducts to cool the brake disc etc

Coming back to street driving, normal brakes with good pads, braided hoses and good brake fluid would be sufficient. Some may even change and have better brake disc to compliment the braking.

Lastly, even if you have good brake kits, if you don't service them regularly, changing brake fluid and overhaul your brake calipers (pistons, seals, O rings etc), your brake system would not be able to perform well.

Don't waste unnecessary money unless you really require them.

bro when u going back to track man/??
Bro, I've been busy working. No time to track.

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Post by jm passion » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:01 am

xeviouss wrote:
jm passion wrote:
xeviouss wrote:I've never gone to sepang.

but experience w after mkt brand kits is, if its a well designed brake kit,
the bite is still gd when the rotors are quite done.

I tracked my previous car a dc5 on alcons when the rotors were rather closed to finishing, by tt I mean some crescents are really fading but it presented really gd bite.

so stock brake kit, sufficient. But given a choice, if you have the budget,
Why not?

That said, I may have vested interest because I subscribe to having better brakes as a peace of mind and I have a set of jbt 6 potters im selling.

A peer on the fd2r who tracked on sepang with good timings also appreciated a in upgrade in brake kits.

Tt said his timings were consider to be good.
2.3x on stock engine road going car. So when you are really want good timings like tt, you might consider. Otherwise, nothing wrong w sticking to stock brake kits.

no pun intended to anyone.
Bro Alcon is good but the price to replace the roto sweat la haha
one cent money, one cent good sometimes.
Dont say rotor. Even the floating pins also not cheap

alot of owners I know replace rotor dont chg pins.
end up also spend 2nd time labor n time to fix it.

caveat emptor.
Ya i remember saw the FD2 owner do it twice but not everyone so technical person if kena me i also do it twice thinking able to save some money, in the end spend more lol. If don't wanna spend additional time & money better open your mouth and ask if good garage they will explain to you in advance before doing as they themselves also don't wanna do return job for the same things as well.

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Post by jm passion » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:04 am

puffer71 wrote:Ask yourself, what kind of driving speed, habits etc do you NORMALLY have? Street driving and track driving are totally different. Even track driving, there are those who goes there have some spirited drive round couple laps, come back to the pits and rest for half hour or an hour and out again. There are some who goes out laps after laps (endurance) for continuous at least 10 laps or so and back to the pits. The latter would require good brake kits and system, cold air ducts to cool the brake disc etc

Coming back to street driving, normal brakes with good pads, braided hoses and good brake fluid would be sufficient. Some may even change and have better brake disc to compliment the braking.

Lastly, even if you have good brake kits, if you don't service them regularly, changing brake fluid and overhaul your brake calipers (pistons, seals, O rings etc), your brake system would not be able to perform well.

Don't waste unnecessary money unless you really require them.
Thumb up! very detail write out.

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Post by cl7teckie » Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:47 am

Braking is one of those highly mis-understood equipment in a car. A lot think that bigger is sure better. It is too complex to even discuss. Wrong bias, and ur car easily go out of control, but a lot will not even think twice.

I used scientific measurements, formula and proper measurement technique to ascertain if stock brake is up to the necessary performance. Firstly, CL7A is too slow on a long Sepang track to need big rotors. But the original stock 282mm is really lacking in some ways. When I upgraded to 300mm and re-run measurement, everything was okie. The 300mm easily lock up the front wheels, and EBD constantly kicks in. But on Sepang track with a slow CL7A, braking is not important at all, so to think BBK is required on a stock CL7A is questionable on Sepang.

Yes, brand name, with lots of $$$ is better, but there is always something better when there is no budget limit. I never say they are not good. A 4pot with the same hydraulic bias, and same 300mm rotor size will improve pad longevity over single pod, and provide more consistent result over the lifespan of the pad.

I have tested using back wheel distance measurement compared with another CL7 with a branded BBK. And the braking distance was within a few centimeter, when braked from 140km/h. And you think the BBK was better. Nope, my 300mm stock caliper came out shorter. But again, it is difficult to tell, as while we were on same tyre, the BBK needs a bigger rim, and thus more weight (inertia). Maybe my hub run-out was tighter. Maybe, and maybe because the EBD kicks in more furiously, when using BBK with more bias, and lose 'grip' ...but within error of measurement, I would put them to a draw.

I have not heard of a stock brake failing, so far. But I personally knows two bro who went back to stock, after their BBK failed. Bad installation or bad brake, I dont know, but I can say it was not the super big brand.

Maintenance is most important. I replace the seals on my calipers every 3yrs, and properly flush the hydraulics. Maybe that's why my brake works on and on. Caliper does not have wear and tear, other than the seals. If the seal is replaced properly, even a 2nd hand used one, is as good as new.

1. Check your hub run-out
2. Rotor is not wrapped.
3. Caliper with good seal....and you will know if it really works..

Lastly, servicing of seal on caliper is not something for every workshop. There are 3 types of grease being used. A special hold-out tube is required to install the piston without mixing these grease. Sadly, I am not aware of any workshop that will make a device specially just for CL7. Let alone a clean-room wiht clean hands to apply the grease.
Pls dont ask me for wkshop, as I know none...I only know it is safer and faster to fix cars on my own.

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Hi

Post by ahceng79 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:08 pm

I have installed the euro r brake kits with new ebc yellow pads, noticed a lot of difference than the cl7a brakes

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Re: Hi

Post by viper76 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:54 pm

ahceng79 wrote:I have installed the euro r brake kits with new ebc yellow pads, noticed a lot of difference than the cl7a brakes

gd for u bro...as long serve ur needs n purpose...

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