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Guide to buying a PI Accord and a list of PIs

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maccord
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Guide to buying a PI Accord and a list of PIs

Post by maccord » Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:55 pm

Just some observations to help anyone looking to get a JDM Accord, or any car from a PI for the matter. Bear in mind that cars don't grow on trees - there is a price you need to pay for it.

1. Buy from reputable dealers.

You want a reputable dealer. What is important in the reputation is that they deliver your ride on time and also they'll still be around when your ride has problems. Consider the Toyota Wish recall (06/2006). According to LTA, seven of the PIs who sold 100+ Wishes are no longer around. The owners of these Wishes will have to bear the cost of the modification. Worse, they are not even notified of a potentially dangerous defect in a car they may be driving everyday and risking their life as well as their friends' and families' .....

The question then arises as to who is reputable? Not easy to answer but you can start by checking up this and other sg car forums as well, e.g.
www.mycarforum.com
http://forums.delphiforums.com/toyotawish/start
http://twcsg.org/index.php
http://www.singaporecarsforum.com/carforum/index.php
http://202.172.177.69/mvnforum/mvnforum ... s?forum=14

The more the PI invest in their business, the greater likelihood that they'll be around. Most PIs outsource the servicing aspects of the car to "Authorised Workshops". A few actually have their own workshops, e.g. Ricardo, Mova and Motorway. These require a much heavier investment. Some PIs just operate out of a small office with barely any furnishings and minimal staff whereas some PIs are quite big with a few offices located all over the island, not just in Ubi Automobile Megamart. These do give an indication into their intention to be around. On saying this there are some small PIs who do give great service and good deals though I would be extremely wary especially of those giving the "Best" deal.

Another little clue would be the time they have been in business. I said "little" because most claim to be in business more than 10 years. Yeah ...right...... as second hand car dealer, karang-guni man, durian seller or even pimp (I actually think pimps are more honourable than most PIs!) are more like it :)!

Take the newspaper ads in the classified section with a BIG pinch of salt; one deal can pay for several months' advertisements. Some adverts are really targeted at the naive, e.g. "This weekend only" ...if you believe, then it simply means this is the first weekend you are reading the classifieds. "Biggest ..Largest ...Most ..." is also what fishmongers say at the wet markets. You don't want to be caught buying the cheapest and biggest but smelliest fish so the same applies when buying from PIs - you don't want to end up with a deal that stinks. Be EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY careful of dealers who call themselves "Honest" ....... like the shark who claims it is not hungry ........

2. Understand how the car is priced.

The advertised price can be extremely deceiving. The price may be with or without COE. Or with Off-peak COEs. Or with COEs pegged to ridiculous figures. The best way of pricing to you would be "Immediate Delivery", and expect the car to be delivered within the week. If you can get it cheap at this price, go for it. Just make sure that it is not a rejected car (check wrappings, wear and tear, odometer etc). Some even advertised "Guaranteed Delivery". This may sound funny to people used to buying from Authorised Agents ....BUT one of the greatest problem with PIs is they DON'T deliver on time; may be MONTHS before you actually take possession of your ride! And what if they close down before you get your ride? Will you get your deposit back?

Often the price quoted is after financing. E.g. actual price is $80K but they advertise as "77K". This may be after rebates of ?months installment depending on ?loan (70-100%) and duration (3-10 years). Interest can be significant, e.g. at 3% interest, for 80% loan for 5 years, interest is $80,000 X 0.8 X 0.03 X 5 =$9600. For just another .5% ...i.e. 3.5% interest - $80,000 X 0.8 X 0.035 X 5 = $11200. Anyone wants to work out the interest for 90% loan at 4% interest for 10 years?

Let me give another more extreme example. Actual price is $85K. Must pay $15K downpayment and take $70K loan for 10 years at 4% interest. The monthly payment is only $858.00 ...... sounds affordable? If OK, sign here and here and here and we will give $10,000 rebate so your Accord is only $85K -$10K = $75K. Good deal right? Must sign by today; offer only this weekend. And so after much pressure-selling tactics including freebies here and there, the bewildered customer signs.

Lets work out the actual price of the special "$75,000" Accord this-weekend-only offer (Condition applies).

$70,000 X 0.04 X 10 = $28,000.
Total Price - $28,000 + $70,000 + $15,000 = $113,000
Of course can give $10K rebate .... the final cost is still $113,000 - $10,000 = $103,000 :shock:

So how did we work out the $858 /mth repayment?

$103,000 / 10 / 12 = $858.33

Quoted price may require you to take some form of minimal loan. Always start with price of car before any financing rebates.

3. Freebies?

I doubt there are much things free in life ..... so whatever freebies are thrown in will only sweeten the deal but it should not be the deciding factor and will come at a cost. Some common "packages" include leather, rims, V-cool, HID, premium CD changer sound system, fog-lights, body kit, reverse sensor etc. Which means that the bare package does not include those:)

Sometimes it may be preferable to get those "freebies" yourself, e.g. rims - you may get better choice elsewhere or leather that is not leather. Quite often these freebies are not exactly the most desirable, e.g. TV tuners that don't work well or window tint that are NOT v-kool and leaves wavy lines on the screen. Not uncommonly, these freebies can be used as a reason for the late delivery of your ride, e.g. car ready but no more stock of .... you may even end up not getting your "promised" freebies ........

4. If possible, buy from PIs with ready stocks in SG.

This will save you the grief of delays in delivery and also assure you of the OMV. I would hesitate to believe these phrases " .....on ship coming now .....in port awaiting customs ...... no problem, can come within a month ......COE successful .....OMV guarantee high....." Nothing beats having the actual real car.

Sometimes "Ready Stocks" can mean ready only until the sales agreement has been signed. Then when the loan is approved, no more stocks - coincidentally all just sold out while waiting for loan approval ....... If the PI has "ready stocks", there is no reason not to reserve the chassis and engine number in the sales contract. I would personally advise ALL potential buyers from PIs include a penalty clause in their deal for any delay in delivery, i.e. if they don't deliver by a specified time, make them pay a penalty for every day of delay. BTW I doubt most PIs will do this for you ....:). Don't fall in love with the brochure.

As a matter of fact most PIs themselves are NOT direct importer. They get their cars from another bigger PI. This help explain the delays as they themselves have no control over the actual shipment. Recently several car owners who bought from some smaller PIs(A) got their cars repossesed because the direct importer PI(B) their PI(A) bought from had actually "sold" the cars to another PI(C) who had paid but not received the cars. In other words those cars were sold twice, once by PI(B) to PI(A) and second time by PI)A) to the customer who then had his ride repo! You really don't want to be in this situation - do try to find out where your PI gets his cars from :roll:

5. If you have a car to trade in, check around for the trade-in value.

You may get a better trade-in (+/- $2000) elsewhere so your $1000 cheaper (seemingly) price on the JDM you are eyeing may not be that much cheaper .... The PIs can also make on your trade-in car - quite a few PIs start of as second hand car dealers. They may not make any money for the JDM sold to you but give you maybe just 1K more than paper value for your old ride, incur another 2K cost and resell your ride in New Zealand for 10K. Go figure how much they make in the end. And then give you crap service because they are not really interested in your Accord JDM deal.

6. Expect good service.

Of course service should be good. Imagine how service will be AFTER you have bought the car if they can't even give you good service before you sign on the dotted line. Again check here on the forum for service quality post-sale from the elders ...:)

One certainly wonders why it is so difficult to just call up your client at least once a week after he signs the sales agreement to keep them in touch until the car is delivered. One cardinal sign of a crappy PI is keeping the client in the dark. Imagine yourself willing to spend $80 - 100K and the SEs will literally promise you the earth to get your deal and then stop any further pretence of service after you signed the sales agreement.

Be wary, too, of exceptionally "helpful" posts on the car forums - find out who is posting. The SEs have taken to the internet as well. I would certainly take it with a pinch of salt advice dished out freely by SEs ?pretending to help (It is their job to sell cars, if you haven't figure it out. Some will even bad mouth other PIs if it helps them to get a sale; brings to mind the saying about honour amongst thieves - some say there is some say there isn't. For lying SEs who bad mouth, there certainly isn't) unless they are upfront about who they are and who they represent.

What these PIs have not figure out is that BAD service info spreads very fast on the internet and good service can only be earned at their doorsteps - not at a computer keyboard.

Avoid SEs that behaves like pimps or those old time durian sellers and are known NOT to be honest no matter how "good" the deal - these people are extremely difficult to retrain. It would seem that lying through their teeth has become engrain in their soul (if they have one in the first place) or they are addicted to it - they tend to keep on lying :toimonster:

7. Servicing.

Check out also the reputation of the workshops where your car will be serviced while under warranty. It matters especially when there is a recall. The cost of recall servicing may need to be borne by the PI eventhough the parts may be free. In-house workshops should be able to absorb these extra costs without much issue. This may explain why in the ongoing Toyota Wish recall, the most problems faced by the owners seem to be from those with outsourced servicing whereas those PIs with their own workshops shined.

Some of the "Authorised Workshops" can be relatively expensive but you may not have a choice if you still choose to keep your ride under the warranty conditions set by the PI. To keep cost down the "cheapest" PI will never be those with their own in-house workshops. And when you outsourced, cost can be the sole deciding factor and as the buyer, you may find that in the end you get what you pay for - most crappy servicing for cheapest price.

"Free labour for 3/5 years"; this will only be free if you use their parts/products which will inevitably be priced just a little higher ....

Remember it only costs $2 (two dollars!) to set up a business in SG so your PI could shut down and re-open again as another PI. What happens to service then? You go figure :roll:

8. If still unsure.

Once you think you have a "good" deal, before you sign on the dotted line (or more like get your IC photostated), you can check your deal again here:) It'll also gives you time to think without being unduly pressurised by the salesperson. Don't worry that the deal will be gone - it'll still be there when you go back. You may even get a better deal at the other 60 PIs ....

9. When you are ready to commit.

After deciding to buy, INSIST that the entire deal including freebies, delivery date and details be put down in BLACK and WHITE on paper. Include penalties if possible, e.g. delay in delivery (the most common complaint), agreed OMV price etc. It is entirely up to you to trust the PI otherwise :roll:

10. Still have last minutes jitters?

When you are about to sign, and still feel extremely uneasy ....WALK AWAY!

Don't feel bad, don't be scared ...there must be at least another 60 other PIs you can go to if you really, really want a JDM Accord. Take a look at the list below .... and it is still growing - every other week there seem to be a new one popping out .......just can't figure out which one will close shop soon ..... to be re-opened as another PI (sometimes even at the same address!). And when this happens, go think about your deposit, warranty, recall issues .... btw the price really, really don't vary that much but if you want to have fun shopping .......:)

Just be prepared to get a good recommendation for doctor when you start vomitting blood in 2 months time ....

These sites may come in useful, too .....

http://www.smallclaims.gov.sg/
http://www.case.org.sg/

I am sure there are many more experienced "tai-kohs" here who can give a better guide but I was bored and angry waiting for my ride ......

Below is a list of PIs who advertised that they deal in JDM Accords. It is a continuation from here:

http://www.shc-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=57157&start=75

70+ PIs .... so what happens to your ride if your PI close shop? Or your deposit if you haven't collected your car?

1. Advancar- (SMin 6474 8588, CommonW)
2. Aprica- * (Ubi 6744 2828) = www.apricar.com.sg
3. Auto Impressio- # (Bedok 6444 2555, WoodL) = www.autoimpression.com.sg
4. Autohu- (EastC 6346 7000)
5. Automagi- # (Aljunied 6746 0646)
6. Autopoin- (Ubi 6741 1851)
7. Autotrus- (Ubi 6746 3707) = http://www.autotrust.com.sg
8. Bellca- # (KBukit 6745 8800)
9. Benchmar- Motoring (TurfC 6468 8878) = www.benchmark.com.sg
10. Benri- Moto- (TKurau)
11. BHP Grou- ****# (Ubi 6844 4473) = AP, Autofix (SMing)
12. BHP Motor- SG (Ubi 6844 5885) = http://bhpmotors.sg
13. Brakes & Peda-s Auto (Ubi 6880 8111)
14. Car Lingua- (TurfC 6463 3777) = http://carlingual.com.sg/
15. Carstatio- (BeachRd 6396 7878)
16. Cartime- ****# (CommonW, Ubi) = MBM WPower (SMing), AP, AF, Mega Auto (ECoast), www.cartimes.com.sg
17. Car- Motor Enterprise # (Ubi 6842 3200)
18. Car- Junction *** (8233 2868)
19. Chin Lian Sen- Motor (Ubi 6285 0822)
20. Chip Gua- * (TurfC 6469 7737)
21. Chua- Car ## (Ubi)
22. Citiprim- Credit (BeachRd 6299 2338)
23. Directaut- (CommonW, Ubi 6476 5575)
24. Drea- Motor (EKong 6467 0112)
25. Driveworl- Automobile (Sembawang 9791 2121)
26. Elitecar- (JChiat 6348 1613) = www.elitecars.com.sg
27. Eur- Motors (Balestier 6841 1333)
28. Garage - (Tagore 6554 4840) = Garage R *
29. Gears & Mile- Automotive (TKurau 6342 0600)
30. Hock Ko- (Ubi)
31. Hua Yan- ***### (CommonW 6475 7277, SMing, TurfC, Ubi, WestC) = Sportswagen A (Ubi), Proswift A (Ubi); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y.
32. Hup Lon- *****###### (Ubi 6743 0018) = World A ### (Tagore), http://www.hlautomobile.com
33. H- Cars # (TurfC 6467 9033)
34. Iguakar- (TextileC 6289 9000) = www.iguakarz.com
35. Jac- Cars *** (ChangiRd 6344 1900) = Gary's E, MBM WPower.
36. JDI 200- (TurfC 6467 4362)
37. Jetly- Holdings (StillRd 6345 2686)
38. Jia Leon- (Ubi 6841 5997) = www.jialeong.com
39. Kens- Leasing *## (Ubi, TKurau 6846 8433)
40. Ken- Corp *#### (JBesar, KBukit, WoodL)
41. Ko- Brothers # (TurfC, LKee 6464 7212)
42. Lec- **# (Ubi 6846 0020) = AP, Mega Auto (ECoast), www.lecomotor.com.sg
43. Legac- Motors * (Serangoon 6282 0000)
44. L- Auto (WCoast 6777 2328)
45. Motopa- Ventures (East 6749 6068)
46. Motor Sho- (WoodL 6756 3881)
47. Motor Trader- ####### (TurfC)
48. Motorwa- ** (BMerah 6841 2200) = Motorway *, www.motorway.com.sg
49. Motorzon- Enterprise (KBukit 6846 8858) = MBM WPower (SMing), www.motorzone.com.sg
50. Mov- *** (BMerah, LKee 6476 3333) = Mova Automotive ** (BMerah), W3Y, 3 services free, www.mova.com.sg
51. Nag- Motor (YCKang 6285 0035)
52. Performance Imag- * (Ubi 6846 1211)
53. Pinnacl- * 10 + ### (Ubi) = Premier
54. Prim- Cars * (BLay 6316 6000) = www.primecars.com.sg CDE(7)
55. Sakur- Carz (KBukit 6742 2525)
56. San Hup Be- (KBukit 6741 7989) = MBM WPower (SMing)
57. Sin- Motors * (PUbi 6844 4473)
58. S- Vehicles Trading *****# (ChangiRd 6345 6111)
59. SH- Pte Ltd (CommonW)
60. SH- Motors Pte Ltd * (UPLebar 6284 3525) = www.shsmotors.com.sg
61. Shuang Hu- (CommonW 6474 2202)
62. Shun Hen- Auto ##### (Bedok) = Jackspeed (Tampines), www.shautomobile.com.sg
63. Silen- Automotive (CommonW 6475 4331)
64. Sunaut- = www.sunauto.com.sg
65. Tai Hua- (CommonW 6344 3786)
66. Teck We- Auto Trading *
67. Vinca- ********## (Alexandra, Ubi 6749 1119) = MBM WPower ** (SMing), www.vincar.com.sg
68. Wah Le- Wheels (Ubi 6741 7675) = AP; FS 5Y
69. World of Wheels 10 + ****** (Ubi 6844 5889) = http://www.wow-asia.com/wow/index.html CDE(7 wshops), ST, KST, BKS(Senoko)
70. Yuni-k- (MackenzieRd 6336 0500)
71. Ze- Carz (Toh G 6795 6996)

Dead PI:

1. Car Resources (KBukit).
2. Auto Magic (JPemimpin)
3. Frankel Motor (FrankelAv)
4. Auto Accor- Credit (MackenzieRd 6338 3919)
5. SQ Carz (Woodlands)


a. AF - http://www.hbiz.com.sg/html/autoforce.htm
b. AP - http://www.autoplus.com.sg/index.asp
c. CDE - http://www.firstforcarcare.com.sg/
d. ST - http://www.stpowered.com.sg/ *#

* one star equates one favourable comment; after delivery of car.
# whatever you make of it

Of course double confirm NO guarantee that the information here is accurate, comprehensive or even current ..... anyone who knows better is welcome to contribute to or correct the list.
Last edited by maccord on Sun May 23, 2010 6:02 pm, edited 37 times in total.

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Post by maccord » Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:05 am

Seems the Toyota guys are a lot more vocal on the crap PIs .....
Last edited by maccord on Sun Apr 01, 2007 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hifi1
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Post by hifi1 » Mon Apr 17, 2006 2:02 am

This is good advise. What I can add a little is in life, dont expect to 'eat all three stakes'. Let others try and make a living and it will be easier .
My colleague bot his Camry from Ricardo on my advise. SE is someone I knew. Didnt bother to check other pricing or other PI. One phone call, go down and chit chat and sign the deal. He has confident in me and I have confident in my fnd. Definitely not the cheapest but definitely the smoothest deal. Dont expect any problem at all. Price diff from the cheapest quote, dunno. Problems - definitely no. Hes very happy, SE happy and I am happy for him instead of running round Spore trying to buy from someone u dont know. Buy car oredi lose so much so why try to save $500.

Anyway maccord bro advise is very good and sound so those wanting to buy should follow closely. Believe it or not, most problematic ones are those that quoted very low, then try to add this add that (to price) or remove this remove that (from car). There will be less prob if the car price is higher cos with more profit margin, the dealer is able to manoveur more. Not always the case but higher chance of cock up with those fantastic deal. If they so good, other PI will closed shop liao.....
Why everything I like I cannot afford and LTA cannot passed?

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Post by s001y » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:05 am

This is why this is called the market place as prices varies with value. Most consumers expect to get the best deal as lowest price for same product and forget about the service package.

people forget time and opportunity and just make only pricing decisions....and the variability is the OMV......

I left the wipers at TLCC and you pay CL7 hor.....

cheers :lol:

hifi1 wrote:This is good advise. What I can add a little is in life, dont expect to 'eat all three stakes'. Let others try and make a living and it will be easier .
My colleague bot his Camry from Ricardo on my advise. SE is someone I knew. Didnt bother to check other pricing or other PI. One phone call, go down and chit chat and sign the deal. He has confident in me and I have confident in my fnd. Definitely not the cheapest but definitely the smoothest deal. Dont expect any problem at all. Price diff from the cheapest quote, dunno. Problems - definitely no. Hes very happy, SE happy and I am happy for him instead of running round Spore trying to buy from someone u dont know. Buy car oredi lose so much so why try to save $500.

Anyway maccord bro advise is very good and sound so those wanting to buy should follow closely. Believe it or not, most problematic ones are those that quoted very low, then try to add this add that (to price) or remove this remove that (from car). There will be less prob if the car price is higher cos with more profit margin, the dealer is able to manoveur more. Not always the case but higher chance of cock up with those fantastic deal. If they so good, other PI will closed shop liao.....
Some sanity after insanity. At least back to normal forum exchange and no more crap. Know where the lines are......!

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Post by hifi1 » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:48 am

s001y wrote:This is why this is called the market place as prices varies with value. Most consumers expect to get the best deal as lowest price for same product and forget about the service package.

people forget time and opportunity and just make only pricing decisions....and the variability is the OMV......

I left the wipers at TLCC and you pay CL7 hor.....

cheers :lol:

hifi1 wrote:This is good advise. What I can add a little is in life, dont expect to 'eat all three stakes'. Let others try and make a living and it will be easier .
My colleague bot his Camry from Ricardo on my advise. SE is someone I knew. Didnt bother to check other pricing or other PI. One phone call, go down and chit chat and sign the deal. He has confident in me and I have confident in my fnd. Definitely not the cheapest but definitely the smoothest deal. Dont expect any problem at all. Price diff from the cheapest quote, dunno. Problems - definitely no. Hes very happy, SE happy and I am happy for him instead of running round Spore trying to buy from someone u dont know. Buy car oredi lose so much so why try to save $500.

Anyway maccord bro advise is very good and sound so those wanting to buy should follow closely. Believe it or not, most problematic ones are those that quoted very low, then try to add this add that (to price) or remove this remove that (from car). There will be less prob if the car price is higher cos with more profit margin, the dealer is able to manoveur more. Not always the case but higher chance of cock up with those fantastic deal. If they so good, other PI will closed shop liao.....
Tks. CC.
Why everything I like I cannot afford and LTA cannot passed?

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Post by maccord » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:27 pm

hifi1 wrote:This is good advise. What I can add a little is in life, dont expect to 'eat all three stakes'. Let others try and make a living and it will be easier .
My colleague bot his Camry from Ricardo on my advise. SE is someone I knew. Didnt bother to check other pricing or other PI. One phone call, go down and chit chat and sign the deal. He has confident in me and I have confident in my fnd. Definitely not the cheapest but definitely the smoothest deal. Dont expect any problem at all. Price diff from the cheapest quote, dunno. Problems - definitely no. Hes very happy, SE happy and I am happy for him instead of running round Spore trying to buy from someone u dont know. Buy car oredi lose so much so why try to save $500.

Anyway maccord bro advise is very good and sound so those wanting to buy should follow closely. Believe it or not, most problematic ones are those that quoted very low, then try to add this add that (to price) or remove this remove that (from car). There will be less prob if the car price is higher cos with more profit margin, the dealer is able to manoveur more. Not always the case but higher chance of cock up with those fantastic deal. If they so good, other PI will closed shop liao.....
Thks, Bro hifi1; again I totally agree with your sentiments.

The big problem is that most of us only buy ONE car within a few (?~5) years and we certainly do NOT have enough exposure to the MANY, MANY PIs out there. I guess this is where we can share and hopefully help someone else out with our individual experiences in dealing with the different PIs.

Someone even mentioned, "Why bother dealing with those sharks?" I guess the answer is clear here. Only the PIs bring in the CL7/9 .... From 2 persons I know who bought from Ricardo, the answer is, "They give better service than Borneo M; cars also more features and slightly cheaper."

I was a little "kan-cheong" when I finally decided to get the CL7; I actually avoided the "cheapest and bestest" deal. Then not knowing any better, went to the first one that gave me what I wanted (HID:), put down the deposit and now am still waiting .......

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Post by maccord » Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:41 pm

Just "discovered" a link to Garage R ..
http://www.onemotoring.com.sg/publish/o ... ge_r_.html
Sounds fairly positive so I guess they do deserve a * .... :D

1. Auto Impressi-- (Bedok) = W3Y/60K, 3 free services
2. Autoh-- (SMing)
3. Automag-- (JPemimpin) = Autoworld (JPemimpin)
4. Autopoi-- (Ubi)
5. Autotru--
6. Benchma-- Motori-- (TCity)
7. BH- (Ubi) = AP, Autofix (SMing)
8. Cartim-- (CWealth, Ubi) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing), AP, AF, Mega Auto (ECoast), www.cartimes.com.sg
9. Ca- Resourc-- (KBukit) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved; W3Y, FS 5Y
10. Chip Gua- (TCity)
11. Chua- Ca- (Ubi)
12. Eur- Motor- (Balestier)
13. Frank--
14. Garag- - (Thomson) = Garage R *
15. Hu- Yan- (CWealth, SMing, TCity, Ubi) = Sportswagen Auto (Ubi), Proswift Auto Services (Ubi); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y.
16. Hu- Lon- (TCity, Ubi) = World Auto (JPemimpin); W3Y/60K, FS 5 yrs; surcharge $40 if bring own oil(27/02), http://www.hlautomobile.com/
17. H- Car- (TCity) = W3Y/60K, FS 3Y
18. Jac- Car- (Changi)
19. Ken- (JBesar)
20. Lec- (Ubi) = AP, Mega Auto (East Coast), www.lecomotor.com.sg
21. Lega-- (Serangoon)
22. Motor Trade-- (TCity)
23. Motorw-- (BMerah) * = Motorway * (BMerah); W3Y/60K, www.motorway.com.sg
24. Mov- (BMerah) * = Mova Automotive * (BMerah), AAS Approved; W3Y, 3 services free, www.mova.com.sg.
25. Pinnac-- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved
26. San Hu- Be- (KBukit) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y
27. S- Vehicl-- Tradi--
28. Shun Hen- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved, www.shautomobile.com.sg
29. Vinc-- (Ubi) # = MBM Wheel Power ** (SMing), www.vincar.com.sg.
30. Wah Le- (Ubi) = AP; FS 5Y
31. World of Wheels (Ubi) ** = Comfort Automotive Services (7 wshops), ST, KST Motorworks, BKS Motorwork (Senoko).

a. AF - http://www.hbiz.com.sg/html/autoforce.htm
b. AP - http://www.autoplus.com.sg/index.asp
c. CAS - http://www.mycas.com.sg/
d. ST - http://www.stpowered.com.sg/ *#

* one star equates one favourable comment.
# whatever you make of it

Of course double confirm NO guarantee that the information here is accurate, comprehensive or even current ..... anyone who knows better is welcome to contribute/add on/make corrections esp to the list.

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Post by hifi1 » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:43 pm

maccord wrote:
hifi1 wrote:This is good advise. What I can add a little is in life, dont expect to 'eat all three stakes'. Let others try and make a living and it will be easier .
My colleague bot his Camry from Ricardo on my advise. SE is someone I knew. Didnt bother to check other pricing or other PI. One phone call, go down and chit chat and sign the deal. He has confident in me and I have confident in my fnd. Definitely not the cheapest but definitely the smoothest deal. Dont expect any problem at all. Price diff from the cheapest quote, dunno. Problems - definitely no. Hes very happy, SE happy and I am happy for him instead of running round Spore trying to buy from someone u dont know. Buy car oredi lose so much so why try to save $500.

Anyway maccord bro advise is very good and sound so those wanting to buy should follow closely. Believe it or not, most problematic ones are those that quoted very low, then try to add this add that (to price) or remove this remove that (from car). There will be less prob if the car price is higher cos with more profit margin, the dealer is able to manoveur more. Not always the case but higher chance of cock up with those fantastic deal. If they so good, other PI will closed shop liao.....
Thks, Bro hifi1; again I totally agree with your sentiments.

The big problem is that most of us only buy ONE car within a few (?~5) years and we certainly do NOT have enough exposure to the MANY, MANY PIs out there. I guess this is where we can share and hopefully help someone else out with our individual experiences in dealing with the different PIs.

Someone even mentioned, "Why bother dealing with those sharks?" I guess the answer is clear here. Only the PIs bring in the CL7/9 .... From 2 persons I know who bought from Ricardo, the answer is, "They give better service than Borneo M; cars also more features and slightly cheaper."

I was a little "kan-cheong" when I finally decided to get the CL7; I actually avoided the "cheapest and bestest" deal. Then not knowing any better, went to the first one that gave me what I wanted (HID:), put down the deposit and now am still waiting .......
Yeah but hope everything is ok. When people ask, many bro here responded like Chip Guan for example but most of them still go elsewhere so how to recommend to 'newbie'?? Its very difficult to conquer the cheaper mentality so most will take a gamble. We have experience but cant find listener. Keep up the good work but I find the thread a bit conusing.

Why not re-arrange in terms of most favoured one on top down. Then its easier first one means better chance of good and happy purchase. No feedback at bottom with keynotes lor.
Why everything I like I cannot afford and LTA cannot passed?

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Post by maccord » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:05 pm

hifi1 wrote:......Yeah but hope everything is ok. When people ask, many bro here responded like Chip Guan for example but most of them still go elsewhere so how to recommend to 'newbie'?? Its very difficult to conquer the cheaper mentality so most will take a gamble. We have experience but cant find listener. Keep up the good work but I find the thread a bit conusing.

Why not re-arrange in terms of most favoured one on top down. Then its easier first one means better chance of good and happy purchase. No feedback at bottom with keynotes lor.
Thks. But sometimes just buay-tahan ...committed already then when got time to look around only start asking questions .....too late :oops:

Anyway, will try yr suggestion ....and yes, there have been quite a few recommendations for CG in this forum ..

1. Motorw-- (BMerah) * = Motorway * (BMerah); W3Y/60K, www.motorway.com.sg
2. Mov- (BMerah) * = Mova Automotive * (BMerah), AAS Approved; W3Y, 3 services free, www.mova.com.sg
3. World of Wheels (Ubi) ** = Comfort Automotive Services (7 wshops), ST, KST Motorworks, BKS Motorwork (Senoko).
4. Chip Gua- (TCity) *
5. Garag- - (Thomson) = Garage R *
6. Auto Impressi-- (Bedok) = W3Y/60K, 3 free services
7. Autoh-- (SMing)
8. Automag-- (JPemimpin) = Autoworld (JPemimpin)
9. Autopoi-- (Ubi)
10. Autotru-- (Ubi)
11. Benchma-- Motori-- (TCity)
12. BH- (Ubi) = AP, Autofix (SMing)
13. Cartim-- (CWealth, Ubi) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing), AP, AF, Mega Auto (ECoast), www.cartimes.com.sg
14. Ca- Resourc-- (KBukit) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved; W3Y, FS 5Y
15. Chua- Ca- (Ubi)
16. Eur- Motor- (Balestier)
17. Frank-- Moto- (FrankelAv)
18. Hu- Yan- (CWealth, SMing, TCity, Ubi) = Sportswagen Auto (Ubi), Proswift Auto Services (Ubi); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y.
19. Hu- Lon- (TCity, Ubi) = World Auto (JPemimpin); W3Y/60K, FS 5 yrs; surcharge $40 if bring own oil(27/02), http://www.hlautomobile.com/
20. H- Car- (TCity) = W3Y/60K, FS 3Y
21. Jac- Car- (ChangiRd)
22. Jetly- Holdin-- (StillRd)
23. Ken- (JBesar)
24. Lec- (Ubi) = AP, Mega Auto (East Coast), www.lecomotor.com.sg
25. Lega-- Motor- (Serangoon)
26. Motor Trade-- (TCity)
27. Pinnac-- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved
28. San Hu- Be- (KBukit) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y
29. S- Vehicl-- Tradi--
30. Shun Hen- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved, www.shautomobile.com.sg
31. Vinc-- (Ubi) # = MBM Wheel Power ** (SMing), www.vincar.com.sg.
32. Wah Le- (Ubi) = AP; FS 5Y

a. AF - http://www.hbiz.com.sg/html/autoforce.htm
b. AP - http://www.autoplus.com.sg/index.asp
c. CAS - http://www.mycas.com.sg/
d. ST - http://www.stpowered.com.sg/ *#

* one star equates one favourable comment.
# whatever you make of it

Of course double confirm NO guarantee that the information here is accurate, comprehensive or even current ..... anyone who knows better is welcome to contribute/add on/make corrections esp to the list.

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Post by maccord » Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:25 am

Just looking at the list of PIs can tell one thing. Most of them are NOT into selling cars for a living; they are just fronts for finance companies, second hand car dealers or maybe even into other more dubious activities e.g. money laundering (of course I am purely speculating here :? ).

For those of us looking to buy a car from someone who is actually interested in the well-being of both yourself and your car, this is not good. The sad thing is that I think there are actually opportunities to succeed as a PI and be viable competition to the "Authorised Agents". Kah Motors DID NOT start of as Honda Singapore. Or C&C as Mercedes Singapore. Or Borneo Motors as Toyoto SG. These guys provided good service, both before and post-sale and hence established good reputations.

I do sincerely hope that the better of the PIs succeed as reputable and reliable Car Dealerships.

And the crappier ones end up the consequences of natural atttrition sooner rather than later.

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Post by maccord » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:56 pm

This apparently from New Paper:

The Electric New Paper :

CONFESSIONS OF A CAR SALESMAN
He'd ignore customers after sealing a deal and lie about giving extra accessories IF you want to know when is the best time to bargain with your car agent, it is usually the day before the monthly bid for the certificate of entitlement (COE).
By Joyce Lim
27 March 2006

IF you want to know when is the best time to bargain with your car agent, it is usually the day before the monthly bid for the certificate of entitlement (COE). So says James, who has been selling cars for eight years. 'Because we want to secure that one more sale to meet our targets, we wouldn't mind earning a little lesser in our commissions by throwing in more freebies for the customers, putting pressure on them to make their purchase,' explained the 32-year-old car salesman. 'We won't appear desperate to close the deals, but we would tell customers that COE prices may go up the next day and they could be paying a few thousand dollars more for the cars.'

'After the COE bidding day, sales are usually slow as customers have two weeks to consider and decide on their purchases before the next COE bidding day. 'That's why we will try to secure whatever sales we can just before the new COE prices are released,' said James, who asked to stay anonymous.

He claims that he earns between $500 to $1,000 for every car he sells. He also earns commissions from the banks whenever customers take up a car loan. 'When customers sign up for car loans, I earn more and I would be able to throw in more car accessories for them. For those who don't need a loan, I would tell them honestly that I can't give them very much,' he added. 'At most I would install the reverse sensors for their cars. Actually, some cars come with these sensors, but I would tell customers that I paid for them out of my commission.'

To deal with customers who appear to be stingy and calculative, James would charge them for car accessories which are actually already included in the package. 'Some customers ask for the sky. They want everything free. 'They want free sports rims, free body kits, free spoilers, free leather seats and so on. The only thing they never ask for free is the car,' said James. 'To deal with such customers, I'll try to give them the cheaper accessories for free and charge them for other things like reverse sensors that actually come with the car.'

James reveals that he also gets extra cash by recommending customers to car workshops, car accessories and parts specialists. 'The shop owners give us better prices for the accessories that we throw in for the customers. When customers want to fix more stuff, we would also get a cut from the shop owners,' he said.

James also confessed that he does not believe in after-sales service, not even if his customers are his friends. 'Once the customer places a deposit, signs the sales agreement, I don't entertain them anymore. I would rather spend my time meeting new customers to get more sales,' he said. 'Some customers have a thousand and one questions and can change their minds even after they sign the sales agreement. So I usually try to avoid their calls and will only call them when their cars are ready for collection.'

And if you think you're always the first one driving the car you've bought, think again. The car agent is sometimes the first to have a go at it, said James, who goes for spins in his customers' brand new cars before delivering the vehicles to them. But he has since stopped. 'Some agents got into accidents in the new cars and things got quite complicated. So some of us have stopped doing that,' he said.

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Post by maccord » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:31 pm

Dun it makes you mad knowing that you spend ~$80K, spend so much time to finally pick a supposedly great car, ink out a deal, then start looking forward enthusiastically to the arrival of your CL7/9 and while waiting start spending more time surfing the web, find forums like this and find that your PI may be another "James".........and your waiting time begins to draggggg on and on .....excuses after excuses .....and you begin to hear familiar phrases .."no problem ....",".....don't worry ...", " ...sure got ....", "....I will check and call you back ...(but never call back ...)..","...guarantee can deliver soon ....", "...COE got oreadi ...",double confirm in Singapore oreadi ...", "...waiting for LTA inspection ..", etc, etc, etc.

I hope these "James" will get weeded out of the system with time. Looking at the list of PIs claiming to sell CL7/9s that still continues to grow, I am very sure that the Ali-Baba ones will close shop soon ....just that it'll also be at the expense of some newbies .... (if you are new to PIs and am reading this, pls take note :P )

Anyway, not all PIs are that bad. From wandering around the forums, CarTimes seems to be another PI that delivers. Not the cheapest but so far that seems to be the main grouse. Otherwise you do get your ride in time. I think this should be THE main concern for anyone considering a CL7/9 FL '06 .....at the rate things are happening maybe newbies should start thinking of FL '07 soon ....

BTW CarTimes advertised "Guaranteed Delivery" in today's papers. If I were to get from them today, I will surely insist they put it down in black and white together with an agreed penalty for failure to deliver by stipulated time, e.g. $30 per day of delay ....

1. Motorw-- (BMerah) * = Motorway * (BMerah); W3Y/60K, www.motorway.com.sg
2. Mov- (BMerah) * = Mova Automotive * (BMerah), AAS Approved; W3Y, 3 services free, www.mova.com.sg
3. World of Wheels (Ubi) ** = Comfort Automotive Services (7 wshops), ST, KST Motorworks, BKS Motorwork (Senoko).
4. Cartim-- * (CWealth, Ubi) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing), AP, AF, Mega Auto (ECoast), www.cartimes.com.sg
5. Chip Gua- (TCity) *
6. Garag- - (Thomson) = Garage R *
7. Auto Impressi-- (Bedok) = W3Y/60K, 3 free services
8. Autoh-- (SMing)
9. Automag-- (JPemimpin) = Autoworld (JPemimpin)
10. Autopoi-- (Ubi)
11. Autotru-- (Ubi)
12. Benchma-- Motori-- (TCity)
13. BH- (Ubi) = AP, Autofix (SMing)
14. Ca- Resourc-- (KBukit) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved; W3Y, FS 5Y
15. Chua- Ca- (Ubi)
16. Eur- Motor- (Balestier)
17. Frank-- Moto- (FrankelAv)
18. Hu- Yan- (CWealth, SMing, TCity, Ubi) = Sportswagen Auto (Ubi), Proswift Auto Services (Ubi); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y.
19. Hu- Lon- (TCity, Ubi) = World Auto (JPemimpin); W3Y/60K, FS 5 yrs; surcharge $40 if bring own oil(27/02), http://www.hlautomobile.com/
20. H- Car- (TCity) = W3Y/60K, FS 3Y
21. Jac- Car- (ChangiRd)
22. Jetly- Holdin-- (StillRd)
23. Ken- (JBesar)
24. Lec- (Ubi) = AP, Mega Auto (East Coast), www.lecomotor.com.sg
25. Lega-- Motor- (Serangoon)
26. Motop-- Ventur-- (East)
27. Motor Trade-- (TCity)
28. Pinnac-- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved
29. San Hu- Be- (KBukit) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y
30. S- Vehicl-- Tradi--
31. Shun Hen- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved, www.shautomobile.com.sg
32. Vinc-- (Ubi) # = MBM Wheel Power ** (SMing), www.vincar.com.sg.
33. Wah Le- (Ubi) = AP; FS 5Y

a. AF - http://www.hbiz.com.sg/html/autoforce.htm
b. AP - http://www.autoplus.com.sg/index.asp
c. CAS - http://www.mycas.com.sg/
d. ST - http://www.stpowered.com.sg/ *#

* one star equates one favourable comment.
# whatever you make of it

Of course double confirm NO guarantee that the information here is accurate, comprehensive or even current ..... anyone who knows better is welcome to contribute/add on/make corrections esp to the list.

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Post by Tanjen » Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:58 pm

maccord wrote:Dun it makes you mad knowing that you spend ~$80K, spend so much time to finally pick a supposedly great car, ink out a deal, then start looking forward enthusiastically to the arrival of your CL7/9 and while waiting start spending more time surfing the web, find forums like this and find that your PI may be another "James".........and your waiting time begins to draggggg on and on .....excuses after excuses .....and you begin to hear familiar phrases .."no problem ....",".....don't worry ...", " ...sure got ....", "....I will check and call you back ...(but never call back ...)..","...guarantee can deliver soon ....", "...COE got oreadi ...",double confirm in Singapore oreadi ...", "...waiting for LTA inspection ..", etc, etc, etc.

I hope these "James" will get weeded out of the system with time. Looking at the list of PIs claiming to sell CL7/9s that still continues to grow, I am very sure that the Ali-Baba ones will close shop soon ....just that it'll also be at the expense of some newbies .... (if you are new to PIs and am reading this, pls take note :P )

Anyway, not all PIs are that bad. From wandering around the forums, CarTimes seems to be another PI that delivers. Not the cheapest but so far that seems to be the main grouse. Otherwise you do get your ride in time. I think this should be THE main concern for anyone considering a CL7/9 FL '06 .....at the rate things are happening maybe newbies should start thinking of FL '07 soon ....

BTW CarTimes advertised "Guaranteed Delivery" in today's papers. If I were to get from them today, I will surely insist they put it down in black and white together with an agreed penalty for failure to deliver by stipulated time, e.g. $30 per day of delay ....

1. Motorw-- (BMerah) * = Motorway * (BMerah); W3Y/60K, www.motorway.com.sg
2. Mov- (BMerah) * = Mova Automotive * (BMerah), AAS Approved; W3Y, 3 services free, www.mova.com.sg
3. World of Wheels (Ubi) ** = Comfort Automotive Services (7 wshops), ST, KST Motorworks, BKS Motorwork (Senoko).
4. Cartim-- * (CWealth, Ubi) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing), AP, AF, Mega Auto (ECoast), www.cartimes.com.sg
5. Chip Gua- (TCity) *
6. Garag- - (Thomson) = Garage R *
7. Auto Impressi-- (Bedok) = W3Y/60K, 3 free services
8. Autoh-- (SMing)
9. Automag-- (JPemimpin) = Autoworld (JPemimpin)
10. Autopoi-- (Ubi)
11. Autotru-- (Ubi)
12. Benchma-- Motori-- (TCity)
13. BH- (Ubi) = AP, Autofix (SMing)
14. Ca- Resourc-- (KBukit) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved; W3Y, FS 5Y
15. Chua- Ca- (Ubi)
16. Eur- Motor- (Balestier)
17. Frank-- Moto- (FrankelAv)
18. Hu- Yan- (CWealth, SMing, TCity, Ubi) = Sportswagen Auto (Ubi), Proswift Auto Services (Ubi); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y.
19. Hu- Lon- (TCity, Ubi) = World Auto (JPemimpin); W3Y/60K, FS 5 yrs; surcharge $40 if bring own oil(27/02), http://www.hlautomobile.com/
20. H- Car- (TCity) = W3Y/60K, FS 3Y
21. Jac- Car- (ChangiRd)
22. Jetly- Holdin-- (StillRd)
23. Ken- (JBesar)
24. Lec- (Ubi) = AP, Mega Auto (East Coast), www.lecomotor.com.sg
25. Lega-- Motor- (Serangoon)
26. Motop-- Ventur-- (East)
27. Motor Trade-- (TCity)
28. Pinnac-- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved
29. San Hu- Be- (KBukit) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y
30. S- Vehicl-- Tradi--
31. Shun Hen- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved, www.shautomobile.com.sg
32. Vinc-- (Ubi) # = MBM Wheel Power ** (SMing), www.vincar.com.sg.
33. Wah Le- (Ubi) = AP; FS 5Y

a. AF - http://www.hbiz.com.sg/html/autoforce.htm
b. AP - http://www.autoplus.com.sg/index.asp
c. CAS - http://www.mycas.com.sg/
d. ST - http://www.stpowered.com.sg/ *#

* one star equates one favourable comment.
# whatever you make of it

Of course double confirm NO guarantee that the information here is accurate, comprehensive or even current ..... anyone who knows better is welcome to contribute/add on/make corrections esp to the list.

My experience with CarTimes was a fruitful one as they delivered what they promised. Manage to get the car on time and definitely must pen down all conditions they agreed to. Price is another factor as you pay a little more to get the assurance. BTW they are ISO certified company and has been around for quiet sometime. It also depends on the SE sometimes.

Tanjen :lol:

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Post by hifi1 » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:53 am

Hi bro maccord

So ur car settle liao?? or not??
Why everything I like I cannot afford and LTA cannot passed?

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Post by maccord » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:27 pm

Tanjen wrote:My experience with CarTimes was a fruitful one as they delivered what they promised. Manage to get the car on time and definitely must pen down all conditions they agreed to. Price is another factor as you pay a little more to get the assurance. BTW they are ISO certified company and has been around for quiet sometime. It also depends on the SE sometimes.
It seems you are fairly satisfied with CT so * to them ....

Was reading in another forum ...when got cock-up, company blames SE (what executive ...reminds me of those Clinique girls walking around in lab coats calling themselves "Beauty Consultants" ..... in Geylang a lot of people also walking around selling ..... once deal done, thats it - no more service. They are in sales, too, so ....SE? In Ubi worse, product not delivered, service already f--- up), SE blames company and NO ONE willing to take responsibility (but both parties take the CASH from buyer). Anyway, I feel that even if SE screw up, the company should still take responsibility to ensure that the customer is not short changed.

1. Motorw-- (BMerah) * = Motorway * (BMerah); W3Y/60K, www.motorway.com.sg
2. Mov- (BMerah) * = Mova Automotive * (BMerah), AAS Approved; W3Y, 3 services free, www.mova.com.sg
3. Cartim-- ** (CWealth, Ubi) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing), AP, AF, Mega Auto (ECoast), www.cartimes.com.sg
4. World of Wheels (Ubi) ** = Comfort Automotive Services (7 wshops), ST, KST Motorworks, BKS Motorwork (Senoko).
5. Chip Gua- (TCity) *
6. Garag- - (Thomson) = Garage R *
7. Auto Impressi-- (Bedok) = W3Y/60K, 3 free services
8. Autoh-- (SMing)
9. Automag-- (JPemimpin) = Autoworld (JPemimpin)
10. Autopoi-- (Ubi)
11. Autotru-- (Ubi)
12. Benchma-- Motori-- (TCity)
13. BH- (Ubi) = AP, Autofix (SMing)
14. Ca- Resourc-- (KBukit) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved; W3Y, FS 5Y
15. Chua- Ca- (Ubi)
16. Eur- Motor- (Balestier)
17. Frank-- Moto- (FrankelAv) = 3 free services. After that $25 surcharge if bring own oil.
18. Hu- Yan- (CWealth, SMing, TCity, Ubi) = Sportswagen Auto (Ubi), Proswift Auto Services (Ubi); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y.
19. Hu- Lon- (TCity, Ubi) = World Auto (JPemimpin); W3Y/60K, FS 5 yrs; surcharge $40 if bring own oil(27/02), http://www.hlautomobile.com/
20. H- Car- (TCity) = W3Y/60K, FS 3Y
21. Jac- Car- (ChangiRd)
22. Jetly- Holdin-- (StillRd)
23. Ken- (JBesar)
24. Lec- (Ubi) = AP, Mega Auto (East Coast), www.lecomotor.com.sg
25. Lega-- Motor- (Serangoon)
26. Motop-- Ventur-- (East)
27. Motor Trade-- (TCity)
28. Pinnac-- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved
29. San Hu- Be- (KBukit) = MBM Wheel Power (SMing); W3Y/60K, FS 5Y
30. S- Vehicl-- Tradi--
31. Shun Hen- (Ubi) = Jackspeed (Tampines), AAS Approved, www.shautomobile.com.sg
32. Vinc-- (Ubi) # = MBM Wheel Power ** (SMing), www.vincar.com.sg.
33. Wah Le- (Ubi) = AP; FS 5Y

a. AF - http://www.hbiz.com.sg/html/autoforce.htm
b. AP - http://www.autoplus.com.sg/index.asp
c. CAS - http://www.mycas.com.sg/
d. ST - http://www.stpowered.com.sg/ *#

* one star equates one favourable comment.
# whatever you make of it

Of course double confirm NO guarantee that the information here is accurate, comprehensive or even current ..... anyone who knows better is welcome to contribute/add on/make corrections esp to the list.

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