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Engine/Gearbox/Differential Oils/Brake Fluids/Coolants

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Engine/Gearbox/Differential Oils/Brake Fluids/Coolants

Postby t_k » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:11 pm

Hi all,

I'm reaching the end of my running in period (finally!) and its time to do my first engine oil change from mineral to synthetic.

Kah Motor uses the standard Shell Helix Ultra, but I'm thinking of using my own engine oil. Any recommendations as to which engine oil I should use? Apart from viscosity, are there any differences between the leading brands?

Also, I've cut and pasted one of J-AP2's posts on this topic which I think should be stickied:

"Hi J,

I have a question which sounds silly.
For the gear fluid, rear diff oil & the engine oil, is there only a certain type of oil you use and are they a different type of oil? Which oil do you use? Do you buy the oil prior to servicing? Where can I buy them?

Well there are different oils that everyone uses. The original engine oil is of viscosity 10w-30, which is fine fer newer cars and if u dun track. The first number, which is cold viscosity, isn't that important in our climate. Pay more attention to the latter figure, which is hot viscosity. If u bring the car to track, pls switch to a 40, e.g. 10w-40 or 5w-40 etc. Sepang can get very hot, and too low a viscosity will break down faster due to the hot temps, robbing the oil of its lubricative properties. Orginal gearbox oil is Honda MTF, not too sure about its viscosity, I think it's 75w-85 or something. 75w-90 is the most common aftermarket gearbox oil viscocity used. Not too sure wot rating the oem diff oil is, but I would change it out as some guys in the US have done UOA on the stock diff oil if I remember correctly and results weren't very positive. On top of that, our rear really runs hot so using a 140 will be better when it heats up. 75w-140 is the common aftermarket viscosity used for our rear diff.

There are too many engine oils to list out but below are a few examples.

Mobil 1 0w-40 (Available at many workshops/petrol kiosk)
Amsoil 5w-30 (Not too sure who carries it, may have to order?)
Elf Excellium 5w-40 (Available @ a few workshops,I only know Uber carries it)
Motul 300V 5w-40 (Maximus Racing, Uber Garage, BMS etc etc)
Roar RS 5w-40 (U can get it directly thru me if u want)
Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 (Available at many workshops/petrol kiosk)
Royal Purple 5w-40 (Think LTM has it? Not too sure, may have to order)

The oils above were all ok except fer Shell Helix Ultra, I didn't like it at all. Personally I've been on the 300V fer the last few years. Currently my s2k is running on Roar RS. There is a thread on page 2 or somewhere on it.

Gearbox Oils

HKS Super Synthetic 75w-90 (Garage-R)
Motul Gear 300 75w-90 (Maximus Racing, Uber Garage, BMS etc)

There are many other gearbox oils around but the above 2 are wot I have used on the s2k. I prefer the Motul Gear 300 over the HKS, it generally gives better shift feel, both hot and cold. There are a couple of gear oils that I want to try but I've had problems getting them in the past and still haven't gotten them yet. Tried a GB before fer it and the GB failed.

Diff Oils

HKS Super Synthetic 75w-140 (Garage-R)
Motul Gear Competition 75w-140 (Maximus Racing, Uber Garage, BMS etc)

Similarly, these are the 2 I've used before and I prefer the Motul once again.


With regards to the fat PCX honda filter, do you buy them first or would the workshop definately have these in stock?

Many workshops might not have stock all the time, u could order a batch of them and keep stock. I think if u did a GB fer these, people will place orders too.

Note: Get an oil filter stopper done on yer ride. It doesn't cost much and goes a long way in terms of preventive action. A couple or more s2ks have blown their engines because of the oil filter coming loose on track.

I had mine done at Uber Garage and quite a few others have done the same as well.


Also, for the brake fluids, coolent & brake pads, just to check with you, is there a certain type of brake fluid and coolent to use? Should I buy my own prior to servicing? For the brands of the coolent & brake pads (for the 6 spot ones) which do you recommend?

Honda uses their OEM DOT3 brake fluid fer both brakes and clutch fluid in our rides. Coolant I would presume it's Honda OEM as well. I used to have a rather detailed brake fluid thread somewhere but I think it's gone.

U can change out the OEM DOT3 brake fluid, which has a rather low dry/wet boiling point to any of the following below:

Castrol SRF (Note: this is quite exp, it has the highest wet boiling point.)
Brembo LCF600 (Driven Performance and other shops)
Motul RBF 600 (Maximus Racing, Uber Garage, BMS etc etc)
Wedsport REV fluid (Garage-R)
AP Racing Super 600 (Not sure but there should be a few shops carrying it)
Project Mu G-Four (Stanford tires?)
HKS Super Brake Fluid (Garage-R)

All the brake fluids I listed above are above dot5.1 specs with high wet/dry boiling points. The RBF600 is a good choice to start with. I've used RBF600 many times and it does its job well. Currently I'm using the Wedsport REV, which is working great as well.

Dry Boiling Point Wet Boiling Point
DOT 3 401ºF 284º F
DOT 4 446º F 311º F
DOT 5 500º F 356º F
DOT 5.1 518º F 375º F

Above are minimum spec requirements to meet in terms of boiling point fer a brake fluid to be DOT classified.

WET BOILING POINT
The minimum temperatures that brake fluids will begin to boil when the brake system contains 3% water by volume of the system.

DRY BOILING POINT
The temperatures that brake fluid will boil with no water present in the system
"
Last edited by t_k on Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby c32b » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:40 pm

one point to note. I cannot do a comparison versus the performance of all the oil filters because frankly I have not tried them all.
Last edited by c32b on Tue May 22, 2012 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby c32b » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:18 pm

here
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Postby J-AP2 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:47 pm

Interesting thread on oil filters in s2ki. I've used the PCX, Greddy Sport and HAMP oil filters on the s2k and have had no problems with any of them. With a oil filter stopper in place now, there's added protection against the oil filter coming loose due to engine vibrations at high rpms. Currently I'm using the HAMP oil filter.
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Postby J-AP2 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:49 pm

Interesting thread on oil filters in s2ki. I've used the PCX, Greddy Sport and HAMP oil filters on the s2k and have had no problems with any of them. With a oil filter stopper in place now, there's added protection against the oil filter coming loose due to engine vibrations at high rpms. Currently I'm using the HAMP oil filter.
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Postby J-AP2 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:50 pm

I think there are too many engine oils to talk about in the market so I'll leave that out. Unless u do UOA testing on each brand of engine oil with the same car, same driving between intervals, and not taking into account wear and tear changes, it's very hard to fully analyse them. I personally like the Motul 300V, Roar RS and Mobil 1. Elf Excellium is something worth trying out too.

Gearbox and Diff oils...well there are a couple of them that I've been wanting to try and trying to get. Tried a GB for the Omega 690 lubes but GB failed due to poor response. Purchase had to be done in 20L drums.

These are what I'm trying to get.

Gearbox Oil
Omega 690 75W-90
Neo Synthetics RHD 75W-90

Diff Oil
Omega 690 Racing Grade 75W-140
Omega 690 Racing Grade 75W-250
Neo Synthetics HD 75W-140

Ideally, I wanna try the combination of the Neo Synthetics RHD 75W-90 in the gearbox, and Omega 690 RG 75W-140 in the diff. If anyone can get them INTO Singapore, let me know. I have contacts to buy them in Japan, or from USA, but bringing it in is an issue cuz it's well, OIL.

Brake Fluids....well I dun think I can go thru the whole process of retyping out all the various boiling points of the long list of brake fluids again, but I will list down a few of the more popular and available choices in Singapore. Note that the list of brake fluids below are all high performance brake fluids and exceed dot5.1 requirements which is 518º F/270º C(DRY) and 375º F/190º C(WET).

Arranged in order of DRY boiling point (Highest to Lowest)

DRY WET
Project Mu G-Four 335º C 221º C
WEDSport REV 332º C 284º C *
Endless RF650 323º C 218º C
AP Racing PRF660 320º C 199º C
Brembo LCF 600+ 316º C 204º C
Motul RBF600 312º C 215º C
Castrol SRF 310º C 270º C
HKS F706 306º C 195º C
AP Racing 600 300º C 210º C

*This is @ 1% wet, rest of figures for WET boling point is @ 3% wet.

WET BOILING POINT
The minimum temperatures that brake fluids will begin to boil when the brake system contains 3% water by volume of the system.

DRY BOILING POINT
The temperatures that brake fluid will boil with no water present in the system

DOT 3, 4, and DOT 5.1 contain Polyglycol ethers and these type of fluids are hydroscopic meaning they have an ability to mix with water and still perform adequately. However, water will drastically reduce the boiling point of fluid. In a passenger car this is not really too big an issue but in racing applications, it is a major issue because as the boiling point decreases, the performance ability of the fluid also decreases.

Polyglycol type fluids are 2 times less compressible than silicone type fluids, even when heated. Less compressibility of brake fluid will increase pedal feel. Changing brake fluids on a regular basis will ensure the brake system stays in good shape.

Point to note: It is not recommended using DOT 5 fluid in any racing applications. DOT 5 fluid is not hygroscopic, therefore as moisture enters the system, it is not absorbed by the fluid, and results in beads of moisture moving through the brake lines, collecting in the calipers . It is not uncommon to have caliper temperatures exceed 200 F as we all know, and at 212 F or 100do not recommend using DOT 5 fluid in any racing applications. DOT 5 fluid is not hygroscopic, so as moisture enters the system, it is not absorbed by the fluid, and results in beads of moisture moving through the brake line, collecting in the calipers . It is not uncommon to have caliper temperatures exceed 200 F, and at 212 F or 100º C, this collected moisture will boil and cause vapour lock and brake system failure. Additionally, DOT 5 fluid is highly compressible due to aeration and foaming under normal braking conditions, providing a spongy brake feel. DOT 5 fluid is probably best suited for show car applications where its anti-corrosion and paint friendly characteristics are important.
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Postby t_k » Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:37 pm

c32b wrote:one point to note. I cannot do a comparison versus the performance of all the oil filters because frankly I have not tried them all.

I will however share my input w.r.t. the fat PCX honda blue oil filter versus the slimmer honda blue oil filter. There is noticeable difference in oil pressure peaks and levels that it holds at for me to avoid this filter totally in the future. simply put, it is a specific requirement for our engine to use the PCX.

As for other oil filters like the aftermarket ones, be sure to avoid the ones with alumnium threads as they may strip themselves considering the significant tightening that the S2000 oil filters need.


Anyone used the green Hamp H1540-RTA-505 before? Its much slimmer than the oem fat blue PCX oil filter so I'm wondering if it's not ideal for our cars..
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Postby nick__123 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:27 pm

Anyone used the blue oil filter 15400-PLC-003 for F22C?
I couldn't get any other oil filter :(
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Postby BuRR06 » Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:32 pm

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mtg.aspx

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/mtf.aspx

which one is the correct gearbox oil for a AP2? Just to confirm, it should be the 75w90 one right...
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How often do the various fluids need to be changed?

Postby NT » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:20 pm

Hi all,

Would appreciate advice on the subject topic - for each of the various kinds of fluids below, how often (either in terms of time or mileage) do they need to be replaced?

1. Gearbox (i.e. transmission) oil

2. Rear differential oil - a related question: does a special kind of rear differential oil need to be used here for cars like ours with LSD (I read on some other webpage that LSD requires a special additive in the oil)?

3. Brake fluid

4. Clutch fluid

5. Engine coolant - does this even need to be drained and replaced at all, or simply topped up when the level looks low?

Many thanks in advance! :D
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Oil Filter

Postby NT » Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:28 pm

Hi all,

1. I was recommended a Hemp oil filter at Autobacs which is longer than my current oil filter - do you know if the length of the oil filter makes a difference if the tread and circumference otherwise fit? Or a more general question, how do I know whether a particular oil filter is suitable for our AP2 or not (assuming it fits)?

2. Engine oil filter stopper (to prevent oil filter from unscrewing itself at high rpm and vibration) - where have you guys got this done and any comments as well as indication of cost (read from a previous post that J-AP2 got his done at Uber Garage)?

Thanks once again!

J-AP2 wrote:Interesting thread on oil filters in s2ki. I've used the PCX, Greddy Sport and HAMP oil filters on the s2k and have had no problems with any of them. With a oil filter stopper in place now, there's added protection against the oil filter coming loose due to engine vibrations at high rpms. Currently I'm using the HAMP oil filter.
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Postby looloo » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:36 am

May i know what is your average oil temp (with n without oil cooler) and type of oil you guys are running?

My concern is I am running without oil cooler, and at times cruising at high speed may be too cool for the oil. Any optimum?

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