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ShaunSG
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Post by ShaunSG » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:52 am

tk, the humps that slowman is talking about should not present a problem as long as taken at a creep. The problem I guess is that traffic conditions don't allow slowing to a real creep. Damping does not affect ride height except in pretty fast transients like bumps in combination at speeds rolling or higher
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Skiver
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Post by Skiver » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:15 pm

Jyoji,

When you said spring rates adjustable, do you mean one has to get separate springs at for eg. 11kg/mm and 9kg/mm? and install them or can it be adjusted on the shock itself? noob question.
HKS Hipermax 3 Sport
Fr: 13kg/mm - Rr: 11kg/mm --- Spring rates adjustable by +/- 2kg/mm w/o revalving.

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J-AP2
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Post by J-AP2 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:14 pm

Skiver wrote:Jyoji,

When you said spring rates adjustable, do you mean one has to get separate springs at for eg. 11kg/mm and 9kg/mm? and install them or can it be adjusted on the shock itself? noob question.
HKS Hipermax 3 Sport
Fr: 13kg/mm - Rr: 11kg/mm --- Spring rates adjustable by +/- 2kg/mm w/o revalving.
U will have to buy another set of springs and install them onto the dampers, which can be in the range of 11kgmm to 15kgmm for the front, 9kgmm to 13kgmm for the rear. Within that +/- 2kgmm threshold, the dampers do not need to be revalved. U can just buy a pair too say if u want 11kgmm F and R. U finding them too stiff fer yer liking?
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Post by Skiver » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:14 pm

Just an after thought. =) its awesome man! taking U-turns at the Calrose junction is so much fun now. :D

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J-AP2
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Post by J-AP2 » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:08 pm

LoL btw u know who owns the other white s2k at our place?? Female driver I believe.

Anyway I've added a couple of coilovers into the list on page 1, namely Buddy Club N+ which I missed out on before, and also a new option, Moton StreetSport. I've been testing the Moton StreetSport for slightly over 3months now and so far so good. This is apparently the first set made worldwide for testing, with its specs largely based off the Motorsport and Clubsport range and data gathered from their S2K users. Making the switch from HKS Hipermax 3 Sport over to the Moton StreetSport, i'll be giving some comparisons between the 2 sets of coilovers.

Moton background
Moton started in 1999, with their primary aim being motorsport performance on the race tracks. The treble of championship wins by Andy Priaulx in the FIA WTCC in 2005, 2006 and 2007 firmly established Moton as 1 of the leaders of suspension technology. Many race teams are now on Moton suspension systems and that includes teams that run the extremely demanding Le Mans 24hr endurance race. In 2000, 30% of the starting field at Le Mans was equipped with Moton suspension.


Basic Info on Moton StreetSport

1) Piston size : 44mm
2) Piston rod : 22mm chromoly steel hardened
3) Body material : T6061 aluminium
4) Pillowball upper mounts
5) Monotube structure
6) Mounting forks : Full billet one piece forks for rigidity
7) Damping : 15 clicks of rebound and compresson damping
8) Gas pressure for support chassis
9) Spring rates: F 12kg/mm | R 11kg/mm

Build quality looks good and solid, as to be expected from 1 of the top suspension specialists in the world. When we lifted the Moton shocks, the Moton felt lighter than the HKS Hipermax III Sport, which is made of steel and not aluminium. Each side of the Moton weighs in at 4+kg if I'm not wrong. 1 other advantage of aluminium besides weight is that it is a poorer conductor of heat, meaning it can endure more abuse for a prolonged period. The Moton comes equipped with Eibach springs. A few quick visual observations led us to seeing that the mounting forks were very much thicker and so is the camber plate up top. We lifted up the dust boots on the HKS to compare the thickness of the piston rods, and there was a big difference in thickness. Installation was straightforward.

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Initial Street Driving Impression

I decided to set them on 7 out of 15 clicks first and the comfort was immediately noticable. The Moton StreetSports are definitely more comfortable than the HKS Hipermax 3 Sport for daily driving. Even a non-petrolhead girlfriend noticed it immediately without me mentioning a word about them. The comfort was impressive, with the suspension absorbing all of the bumps on the road and provided the car with traction under throttle on uneven roads. As I picked up speed through certain sweepers and bends, the coilovers were firm while still being very street compliant. This was quite different from the HKS Hipermax III Sport, as the HKS tended to be a little bumpier on the streets although it performs well on the track and has sharp response. I usually have my HKS set at 8-15 out of 30 clicks for street driving.

We hoisted the car up after about 300km of street driving to inspect the Motons and there were no leakages or any problems with them. The next stage was to test the Motons on the Sepang International Circuit.

Circuit Testing on SIC

On the way up to the Sepang, the Motons absorbed the bumps on the highway well and was comfortable. The difference in comfort was obvious comparing them to the HKS. We left all 4 corners at 7 clicks on the way up. The car was also very planted at high speeds as it went over certain uneven patches on the NSH.

The true test for the Motons was to be nowhere else except on the track since Moton is known as a world leader in damper technology excelling in motorsports. Even though this is just a street/track version of their much acclaimed ClubSport and MotorSport series, I was still expecting them to perform well. The session was quite packed with 60+ cars and the track was rather congested. It was also a pretty hot day out on the circuit.

There were downsides to our testing, and that was having changed over from the stock front and rear anti-roll bars to Cusco pieces which increased the front stiffness more than it increased the rear. This means we will need more time to fine tune settings. We did experience some understeer upon corner entry and thru mid-corner, but corner exits were fine. After some changes in tire pressures to try to give more front grip, we also made some damper setting changes. We managed to dial out some of the understeer but the car still understeered more than I wanted it to. It will take a few more sessions to set up the car better with the new anti-roll bars. However, the grip level was impressive despite understeering tendencies, and the suspension feedback to the driver was quite direct and sharp. Body roll was reduced compared to the HKS, especially through the fast sweepers of Turn 5 & 6, but that would be attributed more to the stiffer anti-roll bars IMO. I also think that the car might have been lowered too much without RCA kits and roll center geometry might have gone off too much. We were running it lower than usual and there was almost no spacing between fenders and tires. I have to start using a datalogger soon and that will certainly help me improve my timings faster too. The other reason I say so is because if I had been using a datalogger prior and on the day of testing itself, it could have shown with even more conviction as to whether the car had more outright traction etc.

On a rather congested track needing to overtake cars every lap, I only managed a best time of 2:38.6, which is 1.8s behind my PB(on HKS) of 2:36.8 (MPT TA Rd 1, clear track).

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After-track check

We found no leaks or any problems with the coilovers after returning from Sepang. Subsequently I had them checked again after 5000km of usage and no problem found so far. The Motons are also very silent. Aaron Wang, GoTuning USA CEO, took a ride in my car when he was in town and he commented that the Motons sold in the USA are definitely not so quiet, including his own sets.

Conclusion

The HKS is a very impressive set of coilovers on the track for the weekend trackie. I've honestly been very happy with them over the whole period of using them and they did provide good laptimes. They have also received good reviews from MaxRev in the states, who drives TimeAttack events for Evasive Motorsports and often places in the top 3 at various TA events there. The Moton wins hands down for comfort. There seems to be more outright grip on track, but we were unable to fully exploit that on a congested track, with other handling changes made at the same time and that needs time to finetune. Hopefully in time to come, sadly to say it won't be this year, we can start hitting <2:35 laps. So far we have only done 1 track session with the Moton StreetSport but hopefully we should be heading out for more track time with it early next year.

Groupbuy thread has been started seperately so pls refer there for more info. **UPDATE: Ready stock available. NO WAITING TIME. If anyone interested wants more info, you can contact me directly. 8)
Last edited by J-AP2 on Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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slowman
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Post by slowman » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:17 am

Nice review, Jyoji. But too bad you changed too many factors at the same time and it is hard to isolate effect of the Moton.
I'm now back on stock type S coilovers and totally enjoying the comfort. If the Moton is as comfortable as you say, I'll be seriously considering it.

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Post by J-AP2 » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:38 pm

slowman wrote:Nice review, Jyoji. But too bad you changed too many factors at the same time and it is hard to isolate effect of the Moton.
I'm now back on stock type S coilovers and totally enjoying the comfort. If the Moton is as comfortable as you say, I'll be seriously considering it.
Yeah it would have been better to have the Motons tested with every single other variable remaining constant. That would be the most ideal.

I've ever set the Motons at 1 click out of 15, and at that setting, the comfort is equivalent to the stock suspension. In fact it's so comfortable at that setting that I feel uneasy. Adjustments are done thru orifices and not needle valve, therefore every click is very distinct. HKS and almost all other JDM aftermarket coilovers are adjusted through needle valve. Well I think the best judge of comfort was my non-petrolhead girlfriend, cuz she noticed the big difference, comparing HKS set at 8clicks out of 30 and Moton set at 7clicks out of 15, and the Motons were very noticably more comfortable even being set at almost 50% of their damping range, compared to HKS set at less than 30% of their damping range. The additional comfort also came with addition of stiffer sway bars below front n back whereas I ran stock sway bars while on the HKS. Internationally, Moton are in the elite league with Penske, JRZ and SACHS.

For owners who are very particular about comfort and yet want a track performing suspension for weekend tracking trips, I personally think the Motons are a good choice. Almost all other JDM options will not give u a more street compliant ride, with the exception of perhaps the ASM SACHS coilovers, but the price of that set will make u go :shock:

I'm currently negotiating an initial groupbuy for s2k owners. I'll keep u all posted.
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Post by jellyfish » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:17 pm

J-AP2 wrote:
slowman wrote:Nice review, Jyoji. But too bad you changed too many factors at the same time and it is hard to isolate effect of the Moton.
I'm now back on stock type S coilovers and totally enjoying the comfort. If the Moton is as comfortable as you say, I'll be seriously considering it.
Yeah it would have been better to have the Motons tested with every single other variable remaining constant. That would be the most ideal.

I've ever set the Motons at 1 click out of 15, and at that setting, the comfort is equivalent to the stock suspension. In fact it's so comfortable at that setting that I feel uneasy. Adjustments are done thru orifices and not needle valve, therefore every click is very distinct. HKS and almost all other JDM aftermarket coilovers are adjusted through needle valve. Well I think the best judge of comfort was my non-petrolhead girlfriend, cuz she noticed the big difference, comparing HKS set at 8clicks out of 30 and Moton set at 7clicks out of 15, and the Motons were very noticably more comfortable even being set at almost 50% of their damping range, compared to HKS set at less than 30% of their damping range. The additional comfort also came with addition of stiffer sway bars below front n back whereas I ran stock sway bars while on the HKS. Internationally, Moton are in the elite league with Penske, JRZ and SACHS.

For owners who are very particular about comfort and yet want a track performing suspension for weekend tracking trips, I personally think the Motons are a good choice. Almost all other JDM options will not give u a more street compliant ride, with the exception of perhaps the ASM SACHS coilovers, but the price of that set will make u go :shock:

I'm currently negotiating an initial groupbuy for s2k owners. I'll keep u all posted.
group buy? nbz, i just booked a set of buddies n+ spec. :cry:
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Post by jellyfish » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:25 pm

well its ok, i`m installing the buddyclub N+ spec from japan on monday, i`ll do a field test, but not on track lah, :wink:
stay tuned :wink:
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Skiver
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Post by Skiver » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:56 am

J-AP2 wrote:LoL btw u know who owns the other white s2k at our place?? Female driver I believe.
Yeah. She was at one of the fringe non shc S2K meetups. Can't remember her name but her parents stay at Calrose so shes there on the weekends, washing bay area. =)

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J-AP2
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Post by J-AP2 » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:46 pm

Icic....short haired lady, looked pretty funky IIRC. Think her ride is on Advan RG2 rims. U know that the electricity is switched off thru the power outlets in the carpark on Sundays? It's freaking ridiculous, cannot vacuum interior on a sunday. WTF manz. Jason from LTM also stays at Calrose.
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Skiver
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Post by Skiver » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:33 pm

J-AP2 wrote:Icic....short haired lady, looked pretty funky IIRC. Think her ride is on Advan RG2 rims. U know that the electricity is switched off thru the power outlets in the carpark on Sundays? It's freaking ridiculous, cannot vacuum interior on a sunday. WTF manz. Jason from LTM also stays at Calrose.
haha...So THAT's why I see (once in a blue moon) a gang of souped up cars thundering thru the carpark!

One day all of our cars are gonna get scratched! I think yours will be first, coz you have green rims. =)

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J-AP2
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Post by J-AP2 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:48 pm

Skiver wrote:
haha...So THAT's why I see (once in a blue moon) a gang of souped up cars thundering thru the carpark!

One day all of our cars are gonna get scratched! I think yours will be first, coz you have green rims. =)
LoL I seldom see other groups of tiong cars in our carpark. I had a bbq a few mths back and there was a number of rather loud cars that came in. Got complained too..LoL~~

My car already got scratched a few times already. Not at our place though. :(
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Post by J-AP2 » Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:29 pm

A seperate thread for Moton StreetSports Groupbuy has been started. Pls refer there for details on groupbuy.

**UPDATE: Good news for all. Ready Stock available. NO waiting time.
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ShaunSG
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Post by ShaunSG » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:12 am

From the photos it is clear that this version of the motons isn't adjustable for ride height without affecting jounce/rebound travel proportion and/or changing preload. The Hipermaxs on the other hand definitely allow ride height, stroke distribution and preload to be adjusted independently of each other.
1 other advantage of aluminium besides weight is that it is a poorer conductor of heat, meaning it can endure more abuse for a prolonged period.
Jyoji, alu's thermal conductivity is higher (better), not lower (poorer) than steel's. Higher thermal conductivity is a positive to shock function which is exactly to convert kinetic energy into heat energy. Heat leaves through the shock body. If it does not leave fast enough, then the overall operating heat range increases and variances in damping forces are larger until the temps stabilize. Damper manufacturers typically tune for the stabilized temp, but a narrow range is always a target. Higher temperature oils cavitate easier too.

The thin fork on the Hypermax is because steel is strong and doesn't require a thick cross section. It is however, heavier for a given strength, but in low space and cost applications it make sense. In this case probably cost saving.

Moton is a top brand no doubt, as are JRZ and Ohlins - but Sachs, Penske, and Koni (at least their race divisions) should probably be classified separately and a step up since they supply / have supplied F1, whereas the others do / have not.
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